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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Dec 15, 2016 6:10:42 GMT -6
Lack of academic accountability bothers me a lot. This is a problem that goes beyond the football staff. We have an academic support program for student athletes run out of the Athletic Director's office that is supposed to work with coaches and players. I'm not sure they are doing their job. Only coaches can enforce consequences for missing class. Academic advisors can only put players in classes where they have best chance to succeed. It's up to the players to get to class. And it's up to coaches to make sure that happens. Players have been without accountability for four weeks...you do the math. You are partlially correct. Coaches control consequences for missing class or assignments. You are also correct that academic advisors put students in classes that allow for progress toward a degree and electives where they have the best chance to succeed. Athletic Department advising is not the same as academic advising. Athletic Department academic support staff serve as liaisons between athletics and academics. They, not coaches, are the ones responsible for monitoring student athlete progress to insure they are going to class, passing courses, turning in assignments, and arranging help if needed in the form of tutors in specific subjects or referrals to resources on campus available to all students. The writing center is one such resource. There are several other similar groups that contribute toward academic success. For an example of academic support, see Brittany in Last Chance U. She is the one who stays on top of things regarding the academic progress of athletes. Although she has to rely on coaches to enforce consequences, she is the one responsible for checking up on them throughout the term. We don't do a good job of doing that at ACU and that's a problem that may continue into the next coaching regime.
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Post by wildcatter on Dec 15, 2016 8:35:12 GMT -6
Try as you may, you will not convince me that the coaching change has caused players grades to drop. Their success in the classroom is not dictated by someone in the field house making them run extra sprints. That's just a matter of kids being lazy and undisciplined.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Dec 15, 2016 8:49:26 GMT -6
Try as you may, you will not convince me that the coaching change has caused players grades to drop. Their success in the classroom is not dictated by someone in the field house making them run extra sprints. That's just a matter of kids being lazy and undisciplined. True to a point. However when we knowingly take kids whose predicted GPA places them at risk of academic failure they may require more than just telling them to go to class or else. If we knowingly accept marginal students based on their football skills, in my mind we assume some responsibility for helping provide a structured environment to help them be successful. Not that we have to hold their hands but knowing that they probably haven't learned good study skills, may be deficient in reading or prerequisite math skills or time management may require more than simply telling them they are adults now and responsible for their own success or failure.
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Post by acucatdad on Dec 15, 2016 9:00:16 GMT -6
I'd weigh in here regarding a lot of what's being said, but not on this thread. Maybe in a long-time (3 yrs. or more) CatChat members only discussion.
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Post by bogeyman on Dec 15, 2016 9:57:21 GMT -6
This is disheartening to me. I thought we quit recruiting "at risk" players when we left D2. All our players now are scholars and self-starters, right. What's the problem? Maybe cleaning house is the best thing - not only for coaches but players. Maybe next year we'll just have 60 players on the roster but they will be student-athletes who understand why they are here and that desire leads them to excel in both classroom and on the field.
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Post by catsupporter7 on Dec 15, 2016 11:49:49 GMT -6
This is disheartening to me. I thought we quit recruiting "at risk" players when we left D2. All our players now are scholars and self-starters, right. What's the problem? Maybe cleaning house is the best thing - not only for coaches but players. Maybe next year we'll just have 60 players on the roster but they will be student-athletes who understand why they are here and that desire leads them to excel in both classroom and on the field. There isn't a team in the country at any level, that doesn't recruit "at risk" kids. Just part of the recruiting system. You see teams all over the country waiting until the last minute to see if recruits will make the grades to play.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Dec 15, 2016 11:55:41 GMT -6
This is disheartening to me. I thought we quit recruiting "at risk" players when we left D2. All our players now are scholars and self-starters, right. What's the problem? Maybe cleaning house is the best thing - not only for coaches but players. Maybe next year we'll just have 60 players on the roster but they will be student-athletes who understand why they are here and that desire leads them to excel in both classroom and on the field. There isn't a team in the country at any level, that doesn't recruit "at risk" kids. Just part of the recruiting system. You see teams all over the country waiting until the last minute to see if recruits will make the grades to play. Absoutely right, Catsupporter. Virtually all teams recruit at risk athletes. And that includes some very high powered academic institutions. Bogey is right though. By moving up the at risk players we admit today are a cut above the at risk athletes we admitted when we are D2 because D1 minimum academic standards are higher. Still as the top rated academic school in the conference when we admit minimum qualifier, it places him well below the norm for our student body as a whole. That disparity increases the probability of not making it academically, particularly for those who have never mastered skills essential for academic success.
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archsimon
arm chair Grad Assistant
Posts: 243
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Post by archsimon on Dec 15, 2016 19:42:19 GMT -6
in reply to an earlier post in this thread, everyone here should know that the amount of academic athletic support has virtually quadrupled from one to four people during the transition from d2 to d1 athletics. and yes, it's sad that despite the influx of help, whether it be from academics or compliance, the football grades continue to stagnate. it's equally sad to see so much turnover in these areas, especially the likes of ryan bowman.
the blame should be shared by all in academics and athletics, coaches and players. and i think they'll figure it out eventually once there's a commitment in place (competitive salaries, facilities, tutors, computer labs, etc.).
on the bright side, there were a couple teams tweeting today about their academic success, namely soccer, golf and softball. still curious to see how mbb and wbb did.
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Post by bryceharper on Dec 15, 2016 21:16:46 GMT -6
in reply to an earlier post in this thread, everyone here should know that the amount of academic athletic support has virtually quadrupled from one to four people during the transition from d2 to d1 athletics. and yes, it's sad that despite the influx of help, whether it be from academics or compliance, the football grades continue to stagnate. it's equally sad to see so much turnover in these areas, especially the likes of ryan bowman. the blame should be shared by all in academics and athletics, coaches and players. and i think they'll figure it out eventually once there's a commitment in place (competitive salaries, facilities, tutors, computer labs, etc.). on the bright side, there were a couple teams tweeting today about their academic success, namely soccer, golf and softball. still curious to see how mbb and wbb did. The main problem is that there isn't any staff dedicated to football academics. Really the department only has two or three people over seeing academics. A couple of people also have a hand in academics, but it isn't a direct oversight. For what its worth, SFA has 5 department members dedicated ONLY to academics, with the head person only over seeing FB and MBB, that makes a huge difference.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Dec 16, 2016 4:14:44 GMT -6
in reply to an earlier post in this thread, everyone here should know that the amount of academic athletic support has virtually quadrupled from one to four people during the transition from d2 to d1 athletics. and yes, it's sad that despite the influx of help, whether it be from academics or compliance, the football grades continue to stagnate. it's equally sad to see so much turnover in these areas, especially the likes of ryan bowman. the blame should be shared by all in academics and athletics, coaches and players. and i think they'll figure it out eventually once there's a commitment in place (competitive salaries, facilities, tutors, computer labs, etc.). o n the bright side, there were a couple teams tweeting today about their academic success, namely soccer, golf and softball. still curious to see how mbb and wbb did.[/quote] Thankfully we have non-revenue sports to hold up the overall gpa. I saw the softball graphic on Twitter yesterday. Good on them and those in other sports that are doing well. I don't know the break down at ACU specifically but if we are like most every other college in America there are more academically at risk athletes on the football and MBB teams than in all the other sports combined.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Dec 16, 2016 4:15:41 GMT -6
in reply to an earlier post in this thread, everyone here should know that the amount of academic athletic support has virtually quadrupled from one to four people during the transition from d2 to d1 athletics. and yes, it's sad that despite the influx of help, whether it be from academics or compliance, the football grades continue to stagnate. it's equally sad to see so much turnover in these areas, especially the likes of ryan bowman. the blame should be shared by all in academics and athletics, coaches and players. and i think they'll figure it out eventually once there's a commitment in place (competitive salaries, facilities, tutors, computer labs, etc.). o n the bright side, there were a couple teams tweeting today about their academic success, namely soccer, golf and softball. still curious to see how mbb and wbb did.[/quote] Thankfully we have non-revenue sports to hold up the overall gpa. I saw the softball graphic on Twitter yesterday. Good on them and those in other sports that are doing well. I don't know the break down at ACU specifically but if we are like most every other college in America there are more academically at risk athletes on the football and MBB teams than in all the other sports combined. Thankfully we have non-revenue sports to hold up the overall gpa. I saw the softball graphic on Twitter yesterday. Good on them and those in other sports that are doing well. I don't know the break down at ACU specifically but if we are like most every other college in America there are more academically at risk athletes on the football and MBB teams than in all the other sports combined.
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Post by wallybullington on Dec 16, 2016 9:09:51 GMT -6
This is disheartening to me. I thought we quit recruiting "at risk" players when we left D2. All our players now are scholars and self-starters, right. What's the problem? Maybe cleaning house is the best thing - not only for coaches but players. Maybe next year we'll just have 60 players on the roster but they will be student-athletes who understand why they are here and that desire leads them to excel in both classroom and on the field. Someone slap Bogeyman and wake him up. Get a grip on reality brother. This isn't 1951.
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Post by Outsider on Dec 16, 2016 9:31:13 GMT -6
This is disheartening to me. I thought we quit recruiting "at risk" players when we left D2. All our players now are scholars and self-starters, right. What's the problem? Maybe cleaning house is the best thing - not only for coaches but players. Maybe next year we'll just have 60 players on the roster but they will be student-athletes who understand why they are here and that desire leads them to excel in both classroom and on the field. Someone slap Bogeyman and wake him up. Get a grip on reality brother. This isn't 1951. Thanks, your input and insight is always great. I love you are weighing in on things. I think that we want to still be a higher level academic program even recognizing the reality around us. It disappoints me that these types of things weren't addressed better before the decision to let KC go was made. We would have surely known the the side effects of the decision. Did we let good players down or were these ones that should be paying their personal consequences?
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next year
Dec 16, 2016 9:31:22 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by bogeyman on Dec 16, 2016 9:31:22 GMT -6
Sarcasm is way over this boards head. There was one sentence in my post that should have tipped you off...sigh!
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Dec 16, 2016 9:42:45 GMT -6
Sarcasm is way over this boards head. There was one sentence in my post that should have tipped you off...sigh! One of the tasks for the new board moderator is to find a sarcasm meter emoji to take the guess work out of it--was he being sarcastic or not? Meter says yes. Meter says no. Problem solved.
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