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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Jan 3, 2021 5:13:18 GMT -6
A thought question. Most of us have assumed if our men and women’s basketball programs continued to be successful attendance would go up. Lack of success has also been identified as one of the reasons why football attendance s has gone down. Is it assumptions that with success comes attendance valid? Not always. National prominence hasn’t done much to increase attendance at OU gymnastics meets, for example. A little background. I recently watched a movie about OU’s gymnastics team that I found on Netflix. Or was it Amazon Prime? Or Hulu? Whatever, I watched it. And then did a little online sleuthing about the OU program. Why, you ask? COViD quarantine fatigue, I suppose. That and an abiding interest in women’s collegiate gymnastics left over from my UGA days where gymnastics was wildly successful and popular at the time. Anyway, here is what I found. In the past decade OU has become a national power in women’s gymnastics, winning four national championships. You’d think that would result in more fans at meets, right. Nope. Four national championships later, OU languages in 18th place for attendance average if a measly 1500 or so fans. Meanwhile back in Athens, the University of Georgia has continued to pack em in (9600 + per meet in a venue that only holds 10,500) despite finishing out of the top 10 for most of the past decade. The disconnect between success and attendance prompts me to ask what else needs to be done other than developing a winning tradition to boost attendance? What would it take to fill Moody or the stands at softball and baseball games? Edit to add: Turns out articles have been written on this very subject, focusing in attendance in general and student attendance in particular. www.athleticbusiness.com/marketing/seven-ways-to-engage-fans-and-drive-ticket-sales.html
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Post by Outsider on Jan 3, 2021 8:50:19 GMT -6
As long as the disconnect of The Hill exists, attendance will suffer with or without any success we have. Yes, our attendance gets better when we play better, but it will always be limited by the level of disconnect we have with the community. Until we get control of COVID though it will always skew anything else.
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Post by bogeyman on Jan 3, 2021 9:09:45 GMT -6
Explain "level of disconnect" of the Hill with the community. Our students are involved with the community. Our athletes are involved with the community. Our leaders are involved with the community. We have alumni who are city leaders. We have 1,000's of alumni in a very small market town. We have large churches who are involved with the city in many ways. I believe the "disconnect" is in the minds of a very few who persist in old prejudices. Could we do better--of course--any entity that has an "isolated" clientele will use the majority of its energy to focus on its own, but from What I see from afar, we are doing a good job of getting our message out to Abilene--by participation and by advertisement. What am I missing? Could the perceived "disconnect" be with others and not us?
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Post by rc on Jan 3, 2021 9:48:58 GMT -6
Some random and completely unsubstantiated thoughts come to mind. Dismissal is no big deal.
Two things emerge already. One is the idea of the "disconnect" of the Hill. The other is the more general attendance question. The disconnect has, of course, historical roots -- with three religiously affiliated colleges in town one would expect divided loyalties. However, something new has been evolving over time and that new thing is a greater awareness of the value of ACU to the city's stature and economics. ACU is slowly being recognized as a community value well worth supporting. There is a group of city leaders (not political necessarily but more economic and community service oriented) that meets monthly and when it comes to ACU, they clearly recognize and value the accomplishments and advantages ACU brings to Abilene. This group actually supports ACU and views it as the city's most important university. But it is not sports driven but from a more generalized point of view. I hear eagerness in their questions about what ACU is doing and where it is going with its academic programs and to a lesser extent some pride in the athletic cases of success. These leaders are happier with ACU's engineering program than its football team. However, would this increase attendance at sporting events? A little. I know a minister of another Christian faith who attends ACU games in at least three programs because he was once a pro athlete and enjoys sports. In time this historical disconnect issue should continue to fade simply because ACU is of great value to the whole community. I find it amazing that so many people in public leadership jobs are ACU ex's or related to ACU. I am always pleased to see local business signs around the fields and courts of ACU sporting events. And I am really thrilled when hundreds of thousands of dollars (even a few million) come our way from foundations in the city.
The second part of the issue is attendance at specific events. Historically there was great attendance at track and field meets. Success brought local pride and following so this is a big factor. There was also a time when old Fair Park and then Shotwell Stadium was pretty full for home games but we had historical success and then the Jim Lindsey era. So success does create interest. However, the popularity of each sport is not easily explainable for different locales and populations. Sand volley ball drew crowds when I was in Europe, but I am not sure it will in Abilene. Texas is a football, baseball, and growing basketball state and a track and field sustaining state, at least for the most part. Today, there is far more competition for eyes and things can be watched without the hassle of travel, parking, weather, etc. I would expect a little decline in general attendance. But the bottom line is the particular sport may or may not motivate people to get out in person and I think success would logically be a big part of what drives attendance. What specific sport appeals to different demographics is a question far beyond my hope of understanding things. There are minor sports at Texas that draw small crowds, even when they are national leaders in the events. When UT won nationals in golf, that did not create huge crowds of followers -- except in the newspapers. Different things appeal to different folks.
Great question... no good answer from my side. But it is church time so I'll check back later for other's comments.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Jan 3, 2021 11:05:45 GMT -6
The attendance problem starts with increasing student turnout. The little bit of reading I’ve done suggests this is not a problem unique to ACU. The The University of Michigan, for example, started offering free donuts to students who came to football games on time. I agree that getting members of the community to support ACU sports is important but just getting students to show up would help a lot,
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Post by Outsider on Jan 3, 2021 11:16:58 GMT -6
Correct RC, the disconnect of the Hill is a very historical reality. Even though ACU alumni are over the rest of the city, including myself. It is still a reality. The long history of the 3 private universities still lives. Combine that with the small reach of each of the 3 schools athletically and that history helps translate to small attendance at events. Yes, you may have some of the more sports diehards come to events, but the average Joe and Jane won't come to an ACU sporting event because there is no real connection yet. Most of the student body is still not local, and not seen as local. The article gave a good variety of suggestions of things that can help though. Bringing in local athletes has helped some. Success in sports will help some. The gimmicks in the article can help some. I think we had started to make some strides before COVID in some sports. I think our facilities and programs to improve experiences help.
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Post by rc on Jan 3, 2021 11:30:22 GMT -6
Student attendance is surely something I would love to see boosted. Sports really helps build loyalty to one's school. I was surprised by the crowds at TCU and their tailgating enthusiasm. TCU charges fees for tailgating spaces that are reserved, and people actually build their own areas out with very nice and expensive facilities. So I was happy to see tailgating at ACU. Football is different to me. It really is related to at least some level of success and respectability on the field. In decades, I had never seen such despair as the crowd after (and during) the Angelo State game this past season. That one hurt. I was teleported back to the past and a trip to San Angelo to watch the Cats play there. Angelo had this supposed super star running back and the crowd was buzzing about him. Little did they know ACU had a new kid who blew their doors off. Freshman Wilbert Montgomery demolished the Angelo excitement about their team. Their grumbling is something hard to forget. ACU fans, meanwhile, were suddenly energized.
Basketball should be doing quite well right now, both men's and women's programs. However, COVID-19 and playing at Teague changes any reasonable analysis of what our crowds could be. The so-called minor sports likely suffer from a more complex society having evolved, one with diverse demands for students' time. Successful financial sports programs (or acceptable levels of net costs) in Texas are probably limited to football and basketball and that is in the good years. However, the alumni's' later support is something that must be considered as well. How is that for speculation without any balance sheets to study.
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Post by Cat_A_holic on Jan 3, 2021 19:06:20 GMT -6
I have participated in many ways in Abilene's civic life. It is absolutely right to say that Abilene does NOT see ACU as "their school." One friend said what many think-"ACU isn't even Abilene. Look at it. It is sitting on the very edge of the town, trying to get away to Dallas. It is a school of elites who all want to leave." I think that summarizes a strong number of Abileneians. I don't know how we overcome that.
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Post by bogeyman on Jan 3, 2021 20:20:11 GMT -6
Well there you have it--A friend of a message board contributor just indicted every student who has ever walked the halls of good ole ACU. "A school of elites who all want to leave." Hogwash!!! I lived for 3 years in the Barracks with guys who all wanted to be there (some of the 1st black students were hallmates). We were all poor, struggling to make ends meet, struggling to keep our grades up, never once going to Dallas (how could I know that) on the weekend and loving college life at ACU. Some made it, some didn't. I was friends with kids from HSU and McMurry. I went to Abilene High, Cooper High and Abilene Wylie football games, sat with HS parents who always treated me with respect, not derision. I was involved with Abilene State School patients and staff and time and again given appreciation for the help ACU gave that Hospital. I understand the rivalries were at one time strong between HSU-ACU-McMurry and can imagine some feelings are still strong. That's to be expected. But I see those walls coming down. In athletics alone we've hired a WBB coach from HSU, MBB assistant coaches from McMurry, a T&F coach from McMurry. We have a whole program of theological study on our campus for HSU students. Elites don't do that (and it probably wouldn't have been done 50 years ago). All we can do is object to the characterization by our grace and participation with... I guess I agree with Oscar about the attendance thing--we need to start with our own students. And maybe we need to talk to our students and staff about the perception of elitism. That seems to be a problem of the heart that needs to be addressed.
P.S. Over my 45+ years as an education minister I've had the opportunity to bring hundreds of HS students and Bible School teachers to campus from San Antonio, Dallas (Plano), Houston and Wichita, KS. Most had absolutely no connection with ACU. I can only remember one person having a bad experience (got mad at me not the school) and not wanting to come back (and he ended up sending two daughters to ACU). I say that to say, elitism hasn't been my experience. I was a poor boy from a poor area of South Texas. I was not a good student. I fought and clawed my way to a degree (took me 9 years after Uncle Sam called). I was proud of my school and continue to be "passionate about all things ACU" and will challenge anyone whose experience is different. I don't wear blinders but will always "recognize the good" in the middle of those who are negative. If there is a problem "fix it."
Enough of the tirade: Some suggestions: why do we not require a set number of hours in community service for each degree. Let our "elite" students work with underprivileged kids in AISD, getting their hands dirty "so to speak" with kids who don't have a fighting chance to go to college. Sometimes all it takes to change perception is for someone to care about a kid. One kid works to go to college because an ACU student cared and it might change the course of a whole family. Do you think that family would appreciate ACU for that change agent? Change the perception! Why don't we require attendance at athletic events as a prerequisite for social club membership? Change the culture! Why not require social clubs to meet on Saturdays to cut down on the "Metroplex flight" during football season? How about requiring profs to be at the games? I know, I know: I'm just an old fogey that thinks that sometimes requiring something is the beginning of a habit. I can hear the howl going up.
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Post by rc on Jan 3, 2021 20:50:25 GMT -6
I have participated in many ways in Abilene's civic life. It is absolutely right to say that Abilene does NOT see ACU as "their school." One friend said what many think-"ACU isn't even Abilene. Look at it. It is sitting on the very edge of the town, trying to get away to Dallas. It is a school of elites who all want to leave." I think that summarizes a strong number of Abileneians. I don't know how we overcome that. Wow... that is certainly not my experience. Believe it or not, I have had non-ACU people come up to me and completely unsolicited ask how they could donate money to support on-going research at the University... and they did it. I have had others tell me things ACU does are bringing distinction to Abilene. They are happy ACU is here. One of my very good friends, an ACU graduate, teaches at McMurry. I always get invited to HSU's distinguished business speakers lunches -- and I go. In my case, I have not heard disparaging things about our University.
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Post by Cat_A_holic on Jan 3, 2021 21:01:30 GMT -6
Perhaps we travel in different worlds. Much of these were connections I had for about 5 years Abilene coaching little league baseball. I'm not accusing us of being "elite", simply noting that there is probably a good number of locals who seem to think this. I do not think that much of Abilene looks at ACU as "their" school. We are very expensive (contributing more to that "elite" label) and most of our graduates do not stick around here and invest in the local community. I suspect that the percentages of McMurray and HSU grads that settle down in and around Taylor county would be much higher than ours. I could be wrong, but that's my impression.
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Post by rc on Jan 3, 2021 21:50:07 GMT -6
I would agree that more McMurry and Hardin Simmons grads on a percentage basis stick around after graduation, but there are a lot of ACU people in town. You may be right that a notable number number think of the elite label due to the high cost and maybe the very nice campus. But over the years I have noticed a decided shift to a more accepting and valuing of the university locally. More students come to ACU from a much wider demographic and location around the country (and world,) that is for sure. One thing ACU does for the city is attract some pretty good faculty that would not otherwise be here.
I would agree the majority do not think of ACU as their school. I hear a lot about Texas Tech, for example. But there is an appreciation for what ACU brings to the community.
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Post by wildcatter on Jan 3, 2021 21:55:10 GMT -6
My experience in Abilene was that there was never an effort or reason to connect the university with the local community. Nothing from my studies or athletic department that led to getting involved with the city. Just was in a bubble on the hill from my perspective.
The elitism is maybe because of that lack of connection...maybe the nursing program connects to the community more, maybe the engineering or broadcasting classes do now, maybe the business classes send kids out to do stuff in town, I’m too far removed to know. But 15 years ago there wasn’t anything I ever did to connect to the city on behalf of the school.
Makes me think about Baylor. Obviously a bigger school, but a private and expensive school. Sure seems to be well embraced by Waco, why can’t ACU be the same?
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Post by Cat_A_holic on Jan 4, 2021 6:10:02 GMT -6
Wildcatter, I'm sure it could be more like Baylor. I too attended here for 4 years in the 80's and I participated in outreach weekends, Spring Break campaigns-nothing was connected to local Abilene. I did not feel like I lived in Abilene, even though I lived off-campus and shopped at the local stores. I suspect that many of our current students are the same. I really would love to see the percentages of graduates that continue to live in the Abilene area compared with other local schools.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Jan 4, 2021 7:23:11 GMT -6
My experience in Abilene was that there was never an effort or reason to connect the university with the local community. Nothing from my studies or athletic department that led to getting involved with the city. Just was in a bubble on the hill from my perspective. The elitism is maybe because of that lack of connection...maybe the nursing program connects to the community more, maybe the engineering or broadcasting classes do now, maybe the business classes send kids out to do stuff in town, I’m too far removed to know. But 15 years ago there wasn’t anything I ever did to connect to the city on behalf of the school. Makes me think about Baylor. Obviously a bigger school, but a private and expensive school. Sure seems to be well embraced by Waco, why can’t ACU be the same? Baylor is in the “big leagues” of college athletics. ACU isn’t. In Waco fans can watch Baylor play UT or TCU. In Abilene, many locals would rather stay home and watch the Baylor-UT game on TV than go to the hill and watch ACU take on Arizona Christian.
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