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Post by bucfan on Apr 6, 2022 20:42:31 GMT -6
I made a comment on the Fan Experience section that I didn't want to copy Baylor or A&M. I would like to copy them in these stats that I found in Texas Monthly:
ACU Baylor A&M
% of students who graduate in 4 years 50 67 59
% of students who graduate overall 65 79 81
% of freshmen who return 78 89 93
% of alumni that give money to school 8.4 14 12
We are at least way above HSU and McM - HSU 47,55,65, and 7 while McM is a paltry 25,35,66, and 6.2
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archsimon
arm chair Grad Assistant
Posts: 239
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Post by archsimon on Apr 6, 2022 23:52:17 GMT -6
These numbers reflect the fact that ACU is often the alternate choice for many incoming students. I suspect many of them (and their families) already have ties to bigger Texas universities so that's where many will transfer, attend grad school, donate, or go to on a football Saturday.
Sadly, these attitudes are shared by many staff and faculty - and even some coaches. Oh, there's a home game today. Sorry, I'd rather stay home and watch MY Georgia Bulldogs, or yeah we're all dressing in Burnt Orange to watch MY Longhorns.
If ACU wants those numbers to change, it needs to hire people who want to be part of (and strengthen) the Abilene academic and athletic communities. There's too many in and around campus waving a second flag, which negatively affects their overall commitment.
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Post by bogeyman on Apr 7, 2022 9:42:33 GMT -6
An alternate view from those of archsimon is: ACU is the preferred destination by most students (and/or parents) so the student comes for one or two years, doing their best to make graduation happen, then faced by the expense just can't go anymore (again pressure by parents/students to go somewhere else because of expense). If a student does not make meaningful friends, is not invested (time not money) in university life, academics are too strenuous, no vision for the future instilled, etc. then they search for an inexpensive alternate. I don't know what attitudes are shared with them by staff and faculty and/or coaches but if those folks had rather be somewhere else please facilitate them. That's one of the reasons that I'm very leary of the push to hire outside the university family and those who have no ties to "restoration theology and values." Once you start that slide, of course there is no loyalty to ACU and church life which for 75+ years was a drawing card. This is my opinion and may be totally wrong. Much more research would have to be done to draw valid conclusions.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Apr 7, 2022 9:57:37 GMT -6
I’ve always assumed ACU’s less than desirable graduation rate was based ACU’s relatively high cost. Students simply couldn’t to pay for an ACU education. However, I’m not sure that’s correct since ACU costs less than Baylor and The Bears have a higher return and graduate rate than the Wildcats.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Apr 7, 2022 10:21:20 GMT -6
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Post by bucfan on Apr 7, 2022 10:21:48 GMT -6
I’ve always assumed ACU’s less than desirable graduation rate was based ACU’s relatively high cost. Students simply couldn’t to pay for an ACU education. However, I’m not sure that’s correct since ACU costs less than Baylor and The Bears have a higher return and graduate rate than the Wildcats. My thoughts exactly. Do the ACU students that don't return feel like they were not getting their money's worth for what they were paying? Somehow Baylor is convincing their students that they are. Retention rates of freshman students at other private universities in Texas: Austin College 76 Concordia University 66 Criswell College 73 DBU 69 ETBU 61 HSU 65 HBU 67.8 Howard Payne 52 Huston-Tillotson 58 Jarvis Christian 57 LeTourneau 76.88 LCU 67.73 McM 66 Our Lady of the Lake 56 Rice 97 St. Edward's 76.3 St. Mary's 70 Schreiner 64 SMU 91 Southwestern Adventist 79 SAGU 73 Southwestern 95 TCU 91.3 TLU 69 Texas Wesleyan 52 Trinity 92 University of Dallas 81.3 UMHB 62.21 St. Thomas 80 UIW 71 Wayland Baptist 38 Wiley College 52 When you compare us to all of the Texas private schools, we are doing pretty well with retention. The larger private schools and the more restrictive academic ones appear to do the best with freshmen retention.
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Post by Evan from KTXS on Apr 7, 2022 22:05:30 GMT -6
I’ve always assumed ACU’s less than desirable graduation rate was based ACU’s relatively high cost. Students simply couldn’t to pay for an ACU education. However, I’m not sure that’s correct since ACU costs less than Baylor and The Bears have a higher return and graduate rate than the Wildcats.
May I ask a question about this. When I came to Abilene, I didn't really know anything about any of the three colleges. But one of the first things I heard about ACU was how expensive tuition is.
For the folks here who went to ACU when it seems college was relatively more affordable, was ACU still a rather expensive school?
I went to UNT, which is billed as a cheaper option, and my typical tuition for a semester was $4,500. So, from my experience, it is hard to imagine what a college would have to do to be worth another $15K per semester.
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Post by bucfan on Apr 8, 2022 8:37:56 GMT -6
One thing to remember when comparing state school costs to ACU is to figure in additional fees. State schools often add on a long list of additional fees that are not included in tuition. Also remember that very few students pay anywhere close to the full price of attending ACU. If you are even a halfway decent student, there are plenty of scholarships to bring down the cost. I've had parents tell me that by the time fees are added to state schools and scholarships are figured in to ACU, there wasn't a huge difference in cost for their kids attending both schools. Probably not always the case. When I was a high school counselor I always encouraged students and parents considering private schools to apply and get a financial offer before making a decision.
Having said all that, ACU was still more expensive than public schools when I attended in the 80's but my parents and I felt that what ACU offered was worth the difference. Each family has to decide that on their own. But they need to do it with actual numbers and not just listed tuition per hour costs.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Apr 8, 2022 8:49:23 GMT -6
One thing to remember when comparing state school costs to ACU is to figure in additional fees. State schools often add on a long list of additional fees that are not included in tuition. Also remember that very few students pay anywhere close to the full price of attending ACU. If you are even a halfway decent student, there are plenty of scholarships to bring down the cost. I've had parents tell me that by the time fees are added to state schools and scholarships are figured in to ACU, there wasn't a huge difference in cost for their kids attending both schools. Probably not always the case. When I was a high school counselor I always encouraged students and parents considering private schools to apply and get a financial offer before making a decision. Having said all that, ACU was still more expensive than public schools when I attended in the 80's but my parents and I felt that what ACU offered was worth the difference. Each family has to decide that on their own. But they need to do it with actual numbers and not just listed tuition per hour costs. What was it that made the higher cost worthwhile? The emphasis on spiritual development as well as academics? Smaller classes, opportunities to participate in research as an undergrad? Other?
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Post by bucfan on Apr 8, 2022 9:03:35 GMT -6
For me it was family history of attending ACU, smaller classes, Christian emphasis, being taught by professors and not grad students. And just the general family atmosphere that the campus has. Hard to explain that one. I really didn't consider a lot of other universities but after attending one A&M football game I knew that was NOT the school for me. Too large and too "cultish" (although I'm sure plenty would say ACU has its own "cultish" feel).
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Post by Outsider on Apr 8, 2022 10:23:22 GMT -6
I’ve always assumed ACU’s less than desirable graduation rate was based ACU’s relatively high cost. Students simply couldn’t to pay for an ACU education. However, I’m not sure that’s correct since ACU costs less than Baylor and The Bears have a higher return and graduate rate than the Wildcats.
May I ask a question about this. When I came to Abilene, I didn't really know anything about any of the three colleges. But one of the first things I heard about ACU was how expensive tuition is.
For the folks here who went to ACU when it seems college was relatively more affordable, was ACU still a rather expensive school?
I went to UNT, which is billed as a cheaper option, and my typical tuition for a semester was $4,500. So, from my experience, it is hard to imagine what a college would have to do to be worth another $15K per semester.
All 3 private universities in Abilene are quite expensive. ACU isn't alone in that regard.
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Post by Cat_A_holic on Apr 9, 2022 8:45:39 GMT -6
Our costs, per Dept. of Education info, is as follows (these numbers are consistent, and include tuition, fees, room, and board, for a full academic year):
ACU Average annual cost: Before aid $53,672 After aid $26,809
For comparison:
UNT Average annual in-state cost Before aid $25,386 After aid $15,086
HSU Average annual cost Before aid $45,020 After aid $19,509
Baylor Average annual cost Before aid $67,080 After aid $36,039
Grand Canyon Average annual cost Before aid $32,100 After aid $21,020
TAMU Average annual in-state cost Before aid $31,467 After aid $19,057
UT Austin Average annual in-state cost Before aid $28,928 After aid $18,023
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Apr 9, 2022 12:23:11 GMT -6
Does ‘aid’ include both scholarships/grants as well as loans?
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Post by Cat_A_holic on Apr 11, 2022 9:00:35 GMT -6
Yes, I believe it includes total aid, including reported loans students take out. So, ACU's after aid figure of $26,809 could include substantial loans, which would have to be repaid. Yet, if the formula from the Dept. of Education is consistent, then it would stand to reason we could reasonably compare these figures. If so, it would look like this from most expensive to least expensive. I do not know how to explain our lower retention numbers. I wonder what these look like historically? Could some of this connect to our more recent attempts to broader the recruiting net and bring in many more non-CoC students and students that do not have a strong family or denominational loyalty?
TCU $36,811
SMU $36,222
Baylor $36,039
Wheaton $26,809
ACU $26,809
Calvin College $26,647
Lipscomb University $24,749
Grand Canyon $21,020
HSU $19,509
TAMU $19,057
UT Austin $18,023
UNT $15,086
Sam Houston $14,617
SFA $13,723
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Post by rc on Apr 11, 2022 17:15:45 GMT -6
Just study hard and get a job in NEXT Lab, the pay is good and the resume' is better.
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