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Post by catmasters05 on Jun 15, 2015 16:08:02 GMT -6
Wildcats0075 said exactly what I am thinking. You explained it just the way I thought it.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Jun 15, 2015 16:09:37 GMT -6
I am somewhere in the middle of the debate. I know that even when I was playing there was a lot of complaints from team members about playing at Shotwell in an off-campus high school stadium with a picture of an eagle and cougar on the scoreboard (the stadium is certainly nicer now than when I played and the turf really helps because the grass was very dead by the end of the season and it looked terrible to be playing on what looked to be a field of wheat). Shotwell was a bit of a problem when we were recruiting against other D2 teams and Shotwell was generally comparable to their stadiums, but now that we are competing against teams that have a much better game day experience and stadium I can see it becoming a bigger problem. I also don't think the size of the stadium equates to a nicer stadium, I think the atmosphere and appearance counts for more. The larger stadiums listed above included San Angelo, which is larger but really a dump (or it was the last time I saw it). Even Angelo State built their own on campus stadium (even thought San Angelo stadium is technically on campus) with plans for expanding it. The pitch was to play in a "state of the art" stadium right on campus with a nice game day experience and loud crowd on both sides. I would much rather have a nicer but smaller stadium on campus that is full and loud than over 6,000 empty seats on the visitor side line in a 60 year old stadium surrounded by a dirty and dusty gravel parking lot that blows dust into the stadium. The glossy plans that were rolled out for recruiting looked great and I am sure that recruits showed them to friends and family and will have to eat crow when again their friends and family come to a game to sit in Shotwell. The school promised the stadium and needs to deliver. I completely agree that it is not the coach's fault, but as the saying goes it is their problem as they are the ones dealing with disappointed players. When I was recruited to ACU, they did not even show us Shotwell, so I can't imagine they are playing it up big now. I agree that we won't have a mass exodus of players just because the stadium is not built, but these same players that are disappointed are also our primary recruiters and new recruits are going to ask about their experience at ACU and the new stadium. I can just see the new recruits asking the older players and getting an answer like, "well I saw the same plans as you three years ago when I was recruited and it is still not built and I will never get to play there.....?" Will this kind of statement put just that little bit out doubt in the recruits mind about the truthfulness of ACU or the coaches. Lets be honest for a lot of the recruits there has to be a moment when they are trying to pick between their top 2 seemingly equal choices, and this might just be enough to lose that recruit. 4 or 5 recruiting battles a year for some of the top rated recruits (that will have the most options) could be the difference in winning games. Just curious how many other stadiums have people on the Cat Chat Board been to and just how do we compare to the actual experience. I have been the games at SFA, Sam, HBU, UCA and Texas State before they left. I would put our game day experience/stadium squarely behind everyone except HBU. P.S. HBU's stadium is brand new but to me and example of exactly what ACU should not do and that is build a new on campus stadium for cheap just for the sake of building one. Their home filed is cheap high school looking metal bleachers that are open to the back and there literally is no visitor stands. A CVS sits 15 yards off the visitor 30 yard line, it is a very bad look. The drawing of teh ACU stadium have a very nice and custom stadium look to them and will be a much better place to play versus HBU's stadium. Clemson, Arizona State, Auburn, Arkansas, Georgia Tech, Florida, Kentucky, Georgia, Outback Bowl, Sugar Bowl, New Mexico State, WTAMU, Lamar and Rotan High School. ACU'g game day experience ranks up there with Rotan. ACU's game day experience is lackluster and crowd noise is indifferent. I was looking at a computerized preseason prediction of wins and losses for teams . One of the factors was "home field advantage" Most teams got about 3 points for playing at home. ACU was 0. I can see why. I know ACU has made an effort to improve tailgating and the student driven Wildcat Reign may help with crowd enthusiasm down the road, but, right now i'd have to say i have been to more enthusiastic Sunday morning worship services than at a typical home game. Our relative isolation does not help since visitors are few and far between, leaving the stadium half empty for most games.
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Post by wildcats0075 on Jun 15, 2015 17:35:43 GMT -6
I am somewhere in the middle of the debate. I know that even when I was playing there was a lot of complaints from team members about playing at Shotwell in an off-campus high school stadium with a picture of an eagle and cougar on the scoreboard (the stadium is certainly nicer now than when I played and the turf really helps because the grass was very dead by the end of the season and it looked terrible to be playing on what looked to be a field of wheat). Shotwell was a bit of a problem when we were recruiting against other D2 teams and Shotwell was generally comparable to their stadiums, but now that we are competing against teams that have a much better game day experience and stadium I can see it becoming a bigger problem. I also don't think the size of the stadium equates to a nicer stadium, I think the atmosphere and appearance counts for more. The larger stadiums listed above included San Angelo, which is larger but really a dump (or it was the last time I saw it). Even Angelo State built their own on campus stadium (even thought San Angelo stadium is technically on campus) with plans for expanding it. The pitch was to play in a "state of the art" stadium right on campus with a nice game day experience and loud crowd on both sides. I would much rather have a nicer but smaller stadium on campus that is full and loud than over 6,000 empty seats on the visitor side line in a 60 year old stadium surrounded by a dirty and dusty gravel parking lot that blows dust into the stadium. The glossy plans that were rolled out for recruiting looked great and I am sure that recruits showed them to friends and family and will have to eat crow when again their friends and family come to a game to sit in Shotwell. The school promised the stadium and needs to deliver. I completely agree that it is not the coach's fault, but as the saying goes it is their problem as they are the ones dealing with disappointed players. When I was recruited to ACU, they did not even show us Shotwell, so I can't imagine they are playing it up big now. I agree that we won't have a mass exodus of players just because the stadium is not built, but these same players that are disappointed are also our primary recruiters and new recruits are going to ask about their experience at ACU and the new stadium. I can just see the new recruits asking the older players and getting an answer like, "well I saw the same plans as you three years ago when I was recruited and it is still not built and I will never get to play there.....?" Will this kind of statement put just that little bit out doubt in the recruits mind about the truthfulness of ACU or the coaches. Lets be honest for a lot of the recruits there has to be a moment when they are trying to pick between their top 2 seemingly equal choices, and this might just be enough to lose that recruit. 4 or 5 recruiting battles a year for some of the top rated recruits (that will have the most options) could be the difference in winning games. Just curious how many other stadiums have people on the Cat Chat Board been to and just how do we compare to the actual experience. I have been the games at SFA, Sam, HBU, UCA and Texas State before they left. I would put our game day experience/stadium squarely behind everyone except HBU. P.S. HBU's stadium is brand new but to me and example of exactly what ACU should not do and that is build a new on campus stadium for cheap just for the sake of building one. Their home filed is cheap high school looking metal bleachers that are open to the back and there literally is no visitor stands. A CVS sits 15 yards off the visitor 30 yard line, it is a very bad look. The drawing of teh ACU stadium have a very nice and custom stadium look to them and will be a much better place to play versus HBU's stadium. Clemson, Arizona State, Auburn, Arkansas, Georgia Tech, Florida, Kentucky, Georgia, Outback Bowl, Sugar Bowl, New Mexico State, WTAMU, Lamar and Rotan High School. ACU'g game day experience ranks up there with Rotan. ACU's game day experience is lackluster and crowd noise is indifferent. I was looking at a computerized preseason prediction of wins and losses for teams . One of the factors was "home field advantage" Most teams got about 3 points for playing at home. ACU was 0. I can see why. I know ACU has made an effort to improve tailgating and the student driven Wildcat Reign may help with crowd enthusiasm down the road, but, right now i'd have to say i have been to more enthusiastic Sunday morning worship services than at a typical home game. Our relative isolation does not help since visitors are few and far between, leaving the stadium half empty for most games. I will say that I have alwyas found it funny how well we would draw at the Lone Star Conference football festival in Jerry World as compared to home games. I went to all of the ACU games at Jerry world (and a good amount of the other LCS games at the event) and ACU always had the biggest crowd by a good margin. It was even a pretty loud crowd, which is totally unlike Shotwell. I know we have a lot of alumni in the DFW area so why can't we get some of them to Abilene for a game day experience. Have some good tailgating and a place to set up the campers and make it a real experience for the fans. In the end football is a spectator sport and to advance the attendance past the die hards, we need the better experience. The die hards (like myself would come watch practice film of the one on one O-line vs D-line if they would let us) but we did not do this move up to attract the attention of the fans we already had, it is about expanding the brand and the mission of ACU through better awareness.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Jun 15, 2015 17:53:05 GMT -6
Clemson, Arizona State, Auburn, Arkansas, Georgia Tech, Florida, Kentucky, Georgia, Outback Bowl, Sugar Bowl, New Mexico State, WTAMU, Lamar and Rotan High School. ACU'g game day experience ranks up there with Rotan. ACU's game day experience is lackluster and crowd noise is indifferent. I was looking at a computerized preseason prediction of wins and losses for teams . One of the factors was "home field advantage" Most teams got about 3 points for playing at home. ACU was 0. I can see why. I know ACU has made an effort to improve tailgating and the student driven Wildcat Reign may help with crowd enthusiasm down the road, but, right now i'd have to say i have been to more enthusiastic Sunday morning worship services than at a typical home game. Our relative isolation does not help since visitors are few and far between, leaving the stadium half empty for most games. I will say that I have alwyas found it funny how well we would draw at the Lone Star Conference football festival in Jerry World as compared to home games. I went to all of the ACU games at Jerry world (and a good amount of the other LCS games at the event) and ACU always had the biggest crowd by a good margin. It was even a pretty loud crowd, which is totally unlike Shotwell. I know we have a lot of alumni in the DFW area so why can't we get some of them to Abilene for a game day experience. Have some good tailgating and a place to set up the campers and make it a real experience for the fans. In the end football is a spectator sport and to advance the attendance past the die hards, we need the better experience. The die hards (like myself would come watch practice film of the one on one O-line vs D-line if they would let us) but we did not do this move up to attract the attention of the fans we already had, it is about expanding the brand and the mission of ACU through better awareness. I really enjoyed the games at jerry world and agree totally. Better than Shotwell. I like the idea of some kind of draw for a "game day" experience for out of town fans from the metroplex.
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Post by gopher on Jun 16, 2015 6:51:16 GMT -6
This is good conversation. A couple of observations. 1. Coaches tout the new stadium, heck some on a continual basis tweet photos of the Vision in Action photo of the new stadium. Others posted "Big News" coming and there was a press release done that new architects have been hired to draw up the new plans for the stadium, then post pictures of Lucas Oil field. At some point, the school needs to deliver or credibility gets lost. I understand not building until all funds have been secured, but it would sure be nice to see progress and I feel that more donors would come in if they actually feel it will get done soon. This is where Deleon supposedly was going to excel, in fund raising. Not sure how he has done in his first few months on the job. 2. Regarding tailgating, game day event, and getting DFW fans to Abilene. If there is the DFW alumni base we think there is. I think there should be packages created for alums, with bus travel, hotels, tailgating, etc... to Abilene. I suspect there is a great deal of alumni that would love the idea of getting to Abilene from DFW area for a game/weekend and have the opportunity to visit with fellow alums during on party buses. There is a way to be creative here. All in all , I would really like to see the game day atmosphere improve, which is why the on campus stadium was important, in part to getting all the kids on campus to games and make it desirable to out of towners. Read in the Austin paper yesterday, the new plans for tailgating at UT football. They are actually hiring a company that sets up tailgates, etc... www.statesman.com/news/sports/college-football/texas-tailgate-plan-think-the-grove-at-ole-miss-on/nmcC8/There are lots of opportunities here that doesn't cost a lot of money, but takes some creative, visionary thinking.....
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Jun 16, 2015 6:59:01 GMT -6
This is good conversation. A couple of observations. 1. Coaches tout the new stadium, heck some on a continual basis tweet photos of the Vision in Action photo of the new stadium. Others posted "Big News" coming and there was a press release done that new architects have been hired to draw up the new plans for the stadium, then post pictures of Lucas Oil field. At some point, the school needs to deliver or credibility gets lost. I understand not building until all funds have been secured, but it would sure be nice to see progress and I feel that more donors would come in if they actually feel it will get done soon. This is where Deleon supposedly was going to excel, in fund raising. Not sure how he has done in his first few months on the job. 2. Regarding tailgating, game day event, and getting DFW fans to Abilene. If there is the DFW alumni base we think there is. I think there should be packages created for alums, with bus travel, hotels, tailgating, etc... to Abilene. I suspect there is a great deal of alumni that would love the idea of getting to Abilene from DFW area for a game/weekend and have the opportunity to visit with fellow alums during on party buses. There is a way to be creative here. All in all , I would really like to see the game day atmosphere improve, which is why the on campus stadium was important, in part to getting all the kids on campus to games and make it desirable to out of towners. Read in the Austin paper yesterday, the new plans for tailgating at UT football. They are actually hiring a company that sets up tailgates, etc... www.statesman.com/news/sports/college-football/texas-tailgate-plan-think-the-grove-at-ole-miss-on/nmcC8/There are lots of opportunities here that doesn't cost a lot of money, but takes some creative, visionary thinking..... Georgia Southern just bought a few of these babies for tailgaters to rent on game day.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Jun 16, 2015 7:01:56 GMT -6
This is good conversation. A couple of observations. 1. Coaches tout the new stadium, heck some on a continual basis tweet photos of the Vision in Action photo of the new stadium. Others posted "Big News" coming and there was a press release done that new architects have been hired to draw up the new plans for the stadium, then post pictures of Lucas Oil field. At some point, the school needs to deliver or credibility gets lost. I understand not building until all funds have been secured, but it would sure be nice to see progress and I feel that more donors would come in if they actually feel it will get done soon. This is where Deleon supposedly was going to excel, in fund raising. Not sure how he has done in his first few months on the job. 2. Regarding tailgating, game day event, and getting DFW fans to Abilene. If there is the DFW alumni base we think there is. I think there should be packages created for alums, with bus travel, hotels, tailgating, etc... to Abilene. I suspect there is a great deal of alumni that would love the idea of getting to Abilene from DFW area for a game/weekend and have the opportunity to visit with fellow alums during on party buses. There is a way to be creative here. All in all , I would really like to see the game day atmosphere improve, which is why the on campus stadium was important, in part to getting all the kids on campus to games and make it desirable to out of towners. Read in the Austin paper yesterday, the new plans for tailgating at UT football. They are actually hiring a company that sets up tailgates, etc... www.statesman.com/news/sports/college-football/texas-tailgate-plan-think-the-grove-at-ole-miss-on/nmcC8/There are lots of opportunities here that doesn't cost a lot of money, but takes some creative, visionary thinking..... Georgia Southern just bought a few of these babies for tailgaters to rent on game day. Some really good points. re: 1 The on campus stadium is the only project that is not already underway. ACU has a lot riding on a successful transition to D1. One of the state rationales was to increase prospective student interest in ACU. A new stadium on campus in an integral part of that plan. At some point, it seems we just need to jump in and do it (Maybe at the 90% funded level?).
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Post by catmasters05 on Jun 16, 2015 7:18:34 GMT -6
I think it may take time, but making the game-day experience as much fun as the game itself is what so many other schools have been able to do. Tailgating and game-day atmosphere should be as much fun as going to the game itself, and I think we can make that happen. There apparently is a huge DFW base, so I think the alumni would come to games if it was made into a more attractive experience... beyond just the game. I love gopher's idea of creating packages for alumns. I think this will be easier once the stadium is on campus, but hopefully it can happen even before that. I've been to an OU game and a Sam Houston State game recently... SHSU has an amazing tailgating/ game day experience that could compare (on a smaller scale) to OU or other big schools. I think we could have something similar in Abilene, it just may take time building those traditions and getting alumns to buy in.
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Post by oldman on Jun 16, 2015 7:58:18 GMT -6
Just a comment on Game day experience. I am a DFW resident and have not missed a home game or an away game the last five years when my kid was playing, redshirted or injured. The game day experience at shot well to me was a total bust. I didn't bother with what little was going on in the parking lot since I new if I wanted good seats above the students and away from the band I needed to get in early and get my seats. Until last year I could not get back in the stadium without another ticket. Reserve seats would have helped. Even though I didn't have to pay for tickets I would have so that I could at least try to enjoy the limited tail gaiting. Seeing the other schools last year really reminded me of what my experience in college on game days was like and what we miss at Shotwell. Even the schools without a great tailgating had parties at fraternity houses and came to the game together ( early not late like our student body tends to no matter what time the game was).The game day experience is an alumni and fan experience that draws people to the stands and money to the program. the players don't see it except for the crowds and noise but like to be part of it after graduation. When we bring recruits in on game day with parents it just doesn't live up to what we need to show. I wonder how long after the stadium is built it will take to get that experience to we all would like to see.
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Post by bogeyman on Jun 16, 2015 8:50:32 GMT -6
Man, since all the interest is in "game day experience" why mess the day up with a game. When the Cats are playing I could care less if there is a tractor pull, a carnival, chef Don Juan, or Bar-B-Q by Hillary Clinton going on in the "dusty old parking lot." I get there early, yell a lot, talk to others in the stands about football, and leave having had all the "game day experience" I wanted. This is another instance of what happens at pro games filtering down to college and eventually destroying the game. If the product on the field doesn't fill the stands, will the "clean-up" be worth it. And by clean-up I don't mean just picking up the trash, I mean the expense of having to entertain and feed just to get people in the stadium (which of course has to be state of the art to get the best recruits to come play).Now, I understand why so many want to drop football. Our societies need to be curried to, to keep up with the Jones, will be our downfall. Keep it simple, play the game. It is the game that draws fans, is it not?
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Post by catmasters05 on Jun 16, 2015 9:08:24 GMT -6
Man, since all the interest is in "game day experience" why mess the day up with a game. When the Cats are playing I could care less if there is a tractor pull, a carnival, chef Don Juan, or Bar-B-Q by Hillary Clinton going on in the "dusty old parking lot." I get there early, yell a lot, talk to others in the stands about football, and leave having had all the "game day experience" I wanted. This is another instance of what happens at pro games filtering down to college and eventually destroying the game. If the product on the field doesn't fill the stands, will the "clean-up" be worth it. And by clean-up I don't mean just picking up the trash, I mean the expense of having to entertain and feed just to get people in the stadium (which of course has to be state of the art to get the best recruits to come play).Now, I understand why so many want to drop football. Our societies need to be curried to, to keep up with the Jones, will be our downfall. Keep it simple, play the game. It is the game that draws fans, is it not? Bogey, I understand what you are saying, but the game-day experience is part of the game for the fans... see your comment about the Panera Bread and Harold's in the thread about the Development near ACU. That is part of the game-day experience for you and your wife. I completely agree that the game itself should be enough, but I also think that there is an excitement and pride that comes along with the full experience, including a stadium and tailgating. Could they play the game on any field, anywhere, at anytime and the actual game itself be the same? Sure. But there is a sense of pride and enjoyment that comes with the entire experience. If someone comes into town for the game, where they eat, where they stay, how long they are in town, etc. is all part of the game day experience. I just think it is very exciting and adds to the game to have all of those things right there in the parking lot before the game. You joked about coming to more games if there was a Panera Bread for your wife, but there is much truth to that statement for many who may not come otherwise.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Jun 16, 2015 9:11:49 GMT -6
Man, since all the interest is in "game day experience" why mess the day up with a game. When the Cats are playing I could care less if there is a tractor pull, a carnival, chef Don Juan, or Bar-B-Q by Hillary Clinton going on in the "dusty old parking lot." I get there early, yell a lot, talk to others in the stands about football, and leave having had all the "game day experience" I wanted. This is another instance of what happens at pro games filtering down to college and eventually destroying the game. If the product on the field doesn't fill the stands, will the "clean-up" be worth it. And by clean-up I don't mean just picking up the trash, I mean the expense of having to entertain and feed just to get people in the stadium (which of course has to be state of the art to get the bttest recruits to come play).Now, I understand why so many want to drop football. Our societies need to be curried to, to keep up with the Jones, will be our downfall. Keep it simple, play the game. It is the game that draws fans, is it not? Now that you are in SECLandia you need to go to a few games just to soak up all the atmosphere. Alums roll in several days in advance and set up awnings and tents next to their RV's. On game day they put on a spread and start playing dvds of games past and/or the team fight song until time for the pregame show on the radio or TV. Friends from around the state drop by to say hi, share a bit of casserole or BBQ and a cold drink, and swap stories about games past and hopes for the day and season. Everyone is dressed in school colors. The excitement builds until time to go into the stadium,where the whooping and hollering continue till the last second ticks off the clock. In some locations, folks go back to their tailgate where they critique the game with passersby until the traffic clears out. Expense? Most schools that have a great game day experience find a great revenue stream from premium parking for tailgating to concessions and such...it is also a boom for the local economy. Hotels may have two or three night minimums at premium prices. Restaurants are jammed. Ole Miss and LSU tailgates are legendary but the atmosphere is the same in a lot of locations. It enhances enjoyment of the game for alums, fans and students alike. Tailgates are not "trickle down" experiences from the pros. Tailgating is an integral part of big time and increasingly smaller time college football.
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Post by bogeyman on Jun 16, 2015 10:48:35 GMT -6
Excuse the rantings of an old timer. I love football, everything else is distraction. That said, when we came to the playoff game years ago against Central Missouri I certainly was glad that there was a Comfort Suites to stay in (until it was taken over by the Central Missouri team). But Panera and Comfort Suites have nothing to do with "tail-gating." But I digress. What's the latest on the new stadium? Any rumors out there?
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Post by gopher on Jun 16, 2015 17:17:30 GMT -6
I learned today that statements were made at new student orientation yesterday that this years incoming Freshman group (Class of 2019) is projected to be the largest class in ACU history. That is good news!!!
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Post by bogeyman on Jun 16, 2015 17:50:09 GMT -6
I've no longer any frame of reference, how large is that class projected to be?
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