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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Jan 20, 2021 10:10:14 GMT -6
What was the reason the SLC wanted to boot us out early? Instead of 2022. Wasn't that the original thought? Wouldn't it give them more time to find additional members? Just curious. Divorce is often messy. Feelings of rejection set off all kinds of emotional non-rational responses. That’s the only explanation I have,
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Post by WildCatToothDoc on Jan 20, 2021 10:17:58 GMT -6
That's what I figured. Can we stop or Change the ad they show about us joining the SLC during the games? On espn?
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Post by EastTexasWildcat on Jan 20, 2021 14:22:58 GMT -6
That's what I figured. Can we stop or Change the ad they show about us joining the SLC during the games? On espn? I can see how it comes across as an ad for the SLC. But it’s a preview for the basketball documentary that’s coming out soon. It’s part of the history of the road to the first big dance. However, it would be nice to lead off the preview with something else.
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Post by WildCatToothDoc on Jan 20, 2021 16:48:36 GMT -6
Yes, it tells a story of how we came to be. I've tried to look at it that way, but just still seems kinda weird to me. But then I'm kinda weird. 😜😜🤪😬
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WAC
Jan 20, 2021 23:16:32 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by acumedic on Jan 20, 2021 23:16:32 GMT -6
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Post by wildcats0075 on Jan 21, 2021 9:58:31 GMT -6
I just don't believe that the Texas 4 has FBS aspirations, specifically ACU. I saw a quote by I believe the ACU President, that we are honored to be grouped with the larger state institutions that are moving to the WAC and would be crazy not to take it. To me, this says that we made the move more as preservation to not be stuck in a busted conference more than real aspirational issues of moving up to FBS football. I think the Texas 4 were afraid of the LA schools and wanted a better conference and gave lip service to the WAC but I don't see FBS happening. This feels a lot like A&M Corpus promising a study to add football to get into the Southland but never actually doing more than lip service. If the WAC was to go FBS, that makes 17 FBS programs in Texas, the existing 12 plus 5 more. As a comparison, California has 7 and Florida has 7. I know football is king in Texas, but I just can't see a world where there should be 25% more FBS programs in Texas than Cal and Florida COMBINED. Especially considering that other large schools already recruit the dog out of Texas and dilute what is left to say here. For the Alabama vs Ohio State NC game, I saw a listing that showed between the two teams they had 18 Texas athletes on their roster and that Texas was like second to Alabama and Ohio in the source for players. There is just no way that we can have 17 FBS schools in Texas.
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WAC
Jan 21, 2021 10:27:15 GMT -6
Post by bogeyman on Jan 21, 2021 10:27:15 GMT -6
I just don't believe that the Texas 4 has FBS aspirations, specifically ACU. I saw a quote by I believe the ACU President, that we are honored to be grouped with the larger state institutions that are moving to the WAC and would be crazy not to take it. To me, this says that we made the move more as preservation to not be stuck in a busted conference more than real aspirational issues of moving up to FBS football. I think the Texas 4 were afraid of the LA schools and wanted a better conference and gave lip service to the WAC but I don't see FBS happening. This feels a lot like A&M Corpus promising a study to add football to get into the Southland but never actually doing more than lip service. If the WAC was to go FBS, that makes 17 FBS programs in Texas, the existing 12 plus 5 more. As a comparison, California has 7 and Florida has 7. I know football is king in Texas, but I just can't see a world where there should be 25% more FBS programs in Texas than Cal and Florida COMBINED. Especially considering that other large schools already recruit the dog out of Texas and dilute what is left to say here. For the Alabama vs Ohio State NC game, I saw a listing that showed between the two teams they had 18 Texas athletes on their roster and that Texas was like second to Alabama and Ohio in the source for players. There is just no way that we can have 17 FBS schools in Texas. I don't like the "tenor" of this post on several levels. That ACU may not in reality go FBS, is secondary to joining the WAC. Other options may come along but to say the Texas 4 (and ACU specifically) are just giving "lip service" to the WAC is a pretty condemning statement about our integrity. Remember that the statement about going FBS in football is speculation and was not part of our commitment. Another bold statement is "there is no way we can have 17 FBS schools in Texas." I don't know the right formula for success as an FBS school but are we so much different from UTEP, Texas State, Rice, and North Texas? They seem to be enjoying their role as FBS schools. Alabama has a population of about 5,000,000 est. in 2019 and has 9 D1 programs (not all on a level field with Alabama or Auburn but with strengths of their own). Texas has an estimated pop. in 2019 of 28,000,000+ so why is 17 FBS schools so preposterous. I don't think we'll ever be able to compete day in and day out with the UT's and T A&M's of this world in primary sports and don't think we want to, but this state (I speak as a native Texan) has a place for 17 FBS schools and more.
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Post by wildcats0075 on Jan 21, 2021 11:39:43 GMT -6
I just don't believe that the Texas 4 has FBS aspirations, specifically ACU. I saw a quote by I believe the ACU President, that we are honored to be grouped with the larger state institutions that are moving to the WAC and would be crazy not to take it. To me, this says that we made the move more as preservation to not be stuck in a busted conference more than real aspirational issues of moving up to FBS football. I think the Texas 4 were afraid of the LA schools and wanted a better conference and gave lip service to the WAC but I don't see FBS happening. This feels a lot like A&M Corpus promising a study to add football to get into the Southland but never actually doing more than lip service. If the WAC was to go FBS, that makes 17 FBS programs in Texas, the existing 12 plus 5 more. As a comparison, California has 7 and Florida has 7. I know football is king in Texas, but I just can't see a world where there should be 25% more FBS programs in Texas than Cal and Florida COMBINED. Especially considering that other large schools already recruit the dog out of Texas and dilute what is left to say here. For the Alabama vs Ohio State NC game, I saw a listing that showed between the two teams they had 18 Texas athletes on their roster and that Texas was like second to Alabama and Ohio in the source for players. There is just no way that we can have 17 FBS schools in Texas. I don't like the "tenor" of this post on several levels. That ACU may not in reality go FBS, is secondary to joining the WAC. Other options may come along but to say the Texas 4 (and ACU specifically) are just giving "lip service" to the WAC is a pretty condemning statement about our integrity. Remember that the statement about going FBS in football is speculation and was not part of our commitment. Another bold statement is "there is no way we can have 17 FBS schools in Texas." I don't know the right formula for success as an FBS school but are we so much different from UTEP, Texas State, Rice, and North Texas? They seem to be enjoying their role as FBS schools. Alabama has a population of about 5,000,000 est. in 2019 and has 9 D1 programs (not all on a level field with Alabama or Auburn but with strengths of their own). Texas has an estimated pop. in 2019 of 28,000,000+ so why is 17 FBS schools so preposterous. I don't think we'll ever be able to compete day in and day out with the UT's and T A&M's of this world in primary sports and don't think we want to, but this state (I speak as a native Texan) has a place for 17 FBS schools and more. I guess I don't mean any negative tenor, I think the Texas 4 did what is in the best interest of their respective schools (and I agree with the WAC move). Ultimately the schools are supposed to do what is in their best interest, so mission accomplished. Everything I have heard is that the Texas 4 only committed to do a study to go FBS in a set number of years, and I fully believe that will be accomplished so they had no intentions of breaking their agreements or acting in bad faith. What I also believe that if you were able to truly know what what the Presidents, BOD and AD's of the Texas 4 are thinking as compared to what the WAC officials are thinking, I bet there is a vast difference in the expectation that this thing actually goes FBS in the foreseeable future. Are we much different than UTEP, Texas State, Rice, and North Texas, I say yes absolutely. UTEP enrollment - 25K, Texas State - 38K, North Texas 33K, all many multiples of ACU's 6K. Rice is not big, but has national prominence (and the endowment) that ACU could only dream of and is smack in he middle of Houston. I don't think this is a good set of comps for ACU to look at and judge their FBS experience or their ability to afford the FBS costs. I think Alabama has 5 D1 programs, Alabama, Auburn, UAB, South Ala, Troy. Of those I really don't count Alabama and Auburn as they clearly have national recruiting programs. This leaves three schools to be supported by the State and didn't UAB recently drop football only to have the alumni riot and get it added back a year later. UAB was a large and established football program and they were not enjoying their football experience to keep it. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see ACU in an FBS conference, I just don't think that it will be happening any time soon.
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WAC
Jan 22, 2021 20:02:11 GMT -6
Post by Outsider on Jan 22, 2021 20:02:11 GMT -6
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Jan 23, 2021 9:40:38 GMT -6
On another board there is an interesting discussion about institutional peers of WAC schools. NMSU focuses on land grant universities in the west such as Wyoming, Arizona, Montana and Colorado State. Sam Houston’s list is made up of other regional state universities such as Southern Illinois, Georgia Southern or Middle Tennessee. Someone suggested our list would include Harding, Lubbock Christian and Wayland Baptist. That’s not the list I would have chosen. I would have considered Lipscomb, Pepperdine from our religious heritage and schools like Samford, Calvin or Wheaton from a broader list of Christian Universities.
I’m curious to know who you might choose. Or if we have a current official list of schools to measure ourselves against?
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WAC
Jan 23, 2021 10:36:35 GMT -6
Post by bucfan on Jan 23, 2021 10:36:35 GMT -6
I agree that academically we are above Harding, LCU, and Wayland. We also have more of a national footprint than any of those. Lipscomb is probably the most similar to us. We have a lot of similarities with Pepperdine but certainly don't have the star power they do. A lot of that is merely from location. Wheaton has a good reputation for upholding their Christian heritage while maintaining high academic standards. I'd be ok with being compared to them.
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WAC
Jan 23, 2021 10:44:06 GMT -6
bucfan likes this
Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Jan 23, 2021 10:44:06 GMT -6
I agree that academically we are above Harding, LCU, and Wayland. We also have more of a national footprint than any of those. Lipscomb is probably the most similar to us. We have a lot of similarities with Pepperdine but certainly don't have the star power they do. A lot of that is merely from location. Wheaton has a good reputation for upholding their Christian heritage while maintaining high academic standards. I'd be ok with being compared to them. I’d include Pepperdine more as an aspirational peer than a current one, at least in the academic sense.
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WAC
Jan 23, 2021 11:02:42 GMT -6
Post by Outsider on Jan 23, 2021 11:02:42 GMT -6
Oscar, I think about schools like Lipscomb, Pepperdine, Harding, and Lubbock as historical peers. How we have attempted to station ourselves academically and numerically, student body wise, may be compared to schools like Wheaton and others. I would like to see us in the same comparison as Sanford and other well recognized elite institutions. Some of us have already talked about how our underad/grad decisions have impacted that; among other things.
As far as athletics and it's footprints go, I almost see our selves going down the path of schools like TCU, SMU, BYU, Rice, etc.... I am not comparing endowments or student body size. I am comparing private institutions who moved through similar paths. Several of those institutions went through the WAC to get where they are at now. Do we measure ourselves against where they are now or where they may have been many years ago? Are we looking to follow similar paths with our move to the WAC? I am starting to understand the decision a lot more now then when the rumors first started. I also have questions that come with that. Schools like Lipscomb and Pepperdine have been happy with their specific athletic focus and regional influence; in balance with their academics. ACU has tended to have a larger athletic footprint, along with its regional and academic focus. That is what makes me begin to expand who I might compare ourselves against, whether real or not. I just don't know our leadership well enough to be able to guess their long term goals.
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WAC
Jan 23, 2021 11:56:03 GMT -6
Post by mavsman53 on Jan 23, 2021 11:56:03 GMT -6
Add Baylor to this list too.
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WAC
Jan 23, 2021 13:36:00 GMT -6
Post by PurpleHaze on Jan 23, 2021 13:36:00 GMT -6
Thought I remember hearing several years ago that we were modeling ourselves after Elon and Rice.
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