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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Oct 23, 2020 3:45:13 GMT -6
I’m struggling to understand why the Southland teams would leave a stable conference for an unstable one?
Travel costs would jump way up. Even if the WAC dumps Chicago, there is still Seattle, California and Utah flights for Olympic sports. And in football, if NMSU remains a FBS program it means the closest conference games outside of Texas would be several states away.
SLC teams would have to invest more in basketball. The WAC may arguably be a better basketball conference but at the end of the day both the WAC and the Southland are one bid high seed conferences that most years will be one and done come March Madness.
And in football? The Southland is a likely three bid FCS conference, whereas a WAC FCS conference made up of d2 move ups and a Big Sky Bottom feeder isn’t like to be more than a one bid conference.
The Big Sky is too large. The conference would work with the WAC to help establish a new FCS conference. It just seems that’s a more logical path to follow than raiding the Southland en masse.
Unless the Southland isn’t stable and we don’t know it (LA schools no longer able to compete financially, UCA about to bolt for the Ohio Valley Conference, or ?).
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WAC
Oct 23, 2020 7:33:14 GMT -6
Post by mavsman53 on Oct 23, 2020 7:33:14 GMT -6
Oscar, I think the main question I have, will the WAC be a FBS or FCS conference? Everything I am reading is saying they are hoping to be a FBS conference. To me, that is the only reason I would even consider making this jump. It would be a much weaker conference than the one we are in right now, but if you get 6 wins, you go to a bowl game, and there is money in that.
The WAC used to be a very good conference. I looked back in 2010-2012 and here were the schools, their records and rankings 2010 Nevada 13-1 ranked #13 Boise St 12-1 ranked #10 Hawaii 10-4 ranked #24 Fresno St 8-5 La. Tech 5-7 Idaho 6-7 Utah St 4-8
2011 La. Tech 8-5 Nevada 7-6 Utah St 7-6 Hawaii 6-7 San Jose St 5-7
2012 Utah St 11-2 ranked #16 San Jose St 11-2 ranked #21 La. Tech 9-3 UTSA 8-4
Once Boise left, the conference really took a downward turn
I wonder if we will hear something in the coming weeks from our Athletic Director about his thinking.
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WAC
Oct 23, 2020 7:44:56 GMT -6
Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Oct 23, 2020 7:44:56 GMT -6
Mavsman, I’ve read conflicting reports about whether the WAC envisions a FCS or FBS future. In the near term, I’m certain it’s FCS but that may only be an interim step.
If you look back even further you’ll find back in the 60’s the WAC included Arizona, Arizona State, Wyoming and others who have moved on to bigger G5 or Power 5 conferences.
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WAC
Oct 23, 2020 8:21:40 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by jaminthebody on Oct 23, 2020 8:21:40 GMT -6
I agree with Mavsman. The biggest factor has to be FBS vs FCS. One other aspect I would be looking at is the quality of the basketball and if the NCAA would offer multiple bids to the tourney each year. This seems like a long-term play. The next 4 years will be rough, on travel, not the best quality competition, and weird “rivals”. In 15-20 years, if the WAC becomes what it was in the ‘90s, ‘00s and early ‘10s, we could be like Boise or BYU in prominence. I’m on board if that happens. If this is just another FCS, one bid league perpetually, it’s a NO. This still seems like fake news to me now until we get a named source.
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WAC
Oct 23, 2020 8:27:28 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by jaminthebody on Oct 23, 2020 8:27:28 GMT -6
I just saw that The Mike Prince Show has tweeted it, it seems more likely now.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Oct 23, 2020 8:32:27 GMT -6
I agree with Mavsman. The biggest factor has to be FBS vs FCS. One other aspect I would be looking at is the quality of the basketball and if the NCAA would offer multiple bids to the tourney each year. This seems like a long-term play. The next 4 years will be rough, on travel, not the best quality competition, and weird “rivals”. In 15-20 years, if the WAC becomes what it was in the ‘90s, ‘00s and early ‘10s, we could be like Boise or BYU in prominence. I’m on board if that happens. If this is just another FCS, one bid league perpetually, it’s a NO. This still seems like fake news to me now until we get a named source. Im not sure I am on board with a move for the sake of FBS. We are struggling to keep pace with FCS schools money wise. The NMSU board posted a breakdown of current WAC and proposed new members from the SLC. We wouldn’t begin to be competitive with our basketball budget. Unless we have a huge donation lined up to fund such a jump I vote no fo a move up,
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WAC
Oct 23, 2020 8:59:59 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by jaminthebody on Oct 23, 2020 8:59:59 GMT -6
Another factor would be the corporate sponsors and media deals in a new conference. If there is an ESPN deal worth 10MM to 20MM and a bowl deal, the finances could take care of the shortfall.
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WAC
Oct 23, 2020 9:03:32 GMT -6
Post by acutrackfan on Oct 23, 2020 9:03:32 GMT -6
Oscar, thanks for going out and finding that post on the NM State fan forum. The money spent on basketball by the faith based schools in the WAC is staggeringly higher than what ACU spends. Grand Canyon spends $5.3 on basketball; NMSU - $3.0 million; Seattle - $2.6 million; California Baptist - $2.5 million; and by comparison UIW spends $1.37 million and ACU $1.1 million.
ACU has managed to do exceedingly well in the SLC working with a healthy D-2 budget. Looking at total athletic budgets, ACU is in the bottom third among FCS schools. And, with some big capital projects on the horizon for new dorms (there is one going up on campus right this minute to replace McDonald Dorm), there will be less money to go around for funding a move to FBS. I guess I still don't get it.
UNLESS, there is a growing fear that the LA schools are about to have their athletic budgets gutted. In LA, every spare penny will be sent LSU's way and the every other school has to scramble for the scraps. There are no other FCS conferences anywhere near Abilene.
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WAC
Oct 23, 2020 9:05:58 GMT -6
Post by Outsider on Oct 23, 2020 9:05:58 GMT -6
For me, we need to decide where we fit and be our best in it. I like goals and growth, but we also need to understand ourselves comprehensively. The idea of FBS can tickle the kid in me, but I can also understand the obstacles. We are still a mid level team in a mid-level conference now. The SLC is beginning to get really competitive though and I believe offers us better competition. The idea of possibly adding additional sports sounds nice, but if they aren't big sports in our geographical area maybe we shouldn't force them. The idea of stepping up our basketball program is nice now that we have had some short term success, but we can continue that where we are for now without the additional expenses. Even when I try to look long term, the SLC seems to be a better fit although I understand I could be tunnel visioned right now.
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WAC
Oct 23, 2020 17:39:40 GMT -6
Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Oct 23, 2020 17:39:40 GMT -6
To run with the ACU and others to the WAC rumor for a minute....here is a way to manage travel costs by dividing into divisions as numerous other conferences have done.
WAC Football Conference
ACU Tarleton Sam Houston SFA Lamar Northern Arizona Southern Utah Dixie State
Other Sports
Texas Division
ACU Sam Houston Tarleton SFA Lamar UTRGV NMSU
Western Division
Grand Canyon NAU Utah Valley Southern Utah Cal State Bakersfield Dixie State Seattle
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Oct 25, 2020 3:33:59 GMT -6
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Post by WildCatToothDoc on Oct 25, 2020 7:38:33 GMT -6
Very interesting read. I can't see anybody making a decision to move anywhere this year with all this going on.
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Post by bucfan on Oct 25, 2020 13:13:04 GMT -6
Very interesting article. I was surprised to read that ACU's travel would actually be less. I can't imagine we are thinking of moving up to FBS anytime soon though. We need to find consistent success at the FCS level first.
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WAC
Oct 25, 2020 14:17:34 GMT -6
Post by acutrackfan on Oct 25, 2020 14:17:34 GMT -6
(Removed this post to its correct thread)
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WAC
Oct 26, 2020 3:12:30 GMT -6
Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Oct 26, 2020 3:12:30 GMT -6
Apparently some thought has gone into the problem of increased transportation costs should four of us bolt for the WAC. Here are two ways to reduce costs mentioned in Twitter discussions:
1. sports like TEN and VB can be limited to “roundups” (one in West and one in East) with XC, T&F & golf limited to league championship events.
2. By creating a divisional structure schools would have limited cross divisional play playing the other division once either home or away which would limit flights.
AD’s from Lamar and Sam Houston have both denied they have received formal invitations to join the WAC, although Sam’s announcement left the door open for such a move. Nothing from either SFA or ACU.
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