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Post by wildcatter on Dec 17, 2014 9:31:58 GMT -6
Just a thought this morning with the mid-year transfer signing day taking place for JUCO players:
I am all in for signing high school players and developing a team built on consistency and 4 year player development, but with us undergoing the transition to DI does anyone see it being more advantageous to sign more JUCO players at this time? Since I have been affiliated with ACU (just over the past decade) we have signed very few JUCO players, maybe 2-3 a year. At this time, MOST of those players would have two years remaining to compete (ACU still has two more seasons before we are eligible for post-season play) and they would have the opportunity to possibly play right away for a program that has put players in the NFL year after year.
I also want to mention the FBS transfer possibility especially with SHSU now in the semi-finals of the playoffs. My opinion is somewhat mixed...I saw players come in from major programs that transferred for a reason: they either were phenomenal athletes but were not phenomenal football players which led to them being big recruits but seeing no playing time at the FBS school they were at, they just needed a change of scenery and maybe wanted an opportunity for more playing time and would then have success at ACU, or they ran in to some trouble and were suspended and needed to transfer to play (with mixed results). The announcers for the SHSU game last week mentioned that Sam had something like 17 starters that were not even on the team in Spring ball! I know you can't do that successfully every year and with Keeler coming in it could have been a necessity due to recruiting issues.
Just wanted to spark discussion.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Dec 17, 2014 9:40:08 GMT -6
Just a thought this morning with the mid-year transfer signing day taking place for JUCO players: I am all in for signing high school players and developing a team built on consistency and 4 year player development, but with us undergoing the transition to DI does anyone see it being more advantageous to sign more JUCO players at this time? Since I have been affiliated with ACU (just over the past decade) we have signed very few JUCO players, maybe 2-3 a year. At this time, MOST of those players would have two years remaining to compete (ACU still has two more seasons before we are eligible for post-season play) and they would have the opportunity to possibly play right away for a program that has put players in the NFL year after year. I also want to mention the FBS transfer possibility especially with SHSU now in the semi-finals of the playoffs. My opinion is somewhat mixed...I saw players come in from major programs that transferred for a reason: they either were phenomenal athletes but were not phenomenal football players which led to them being big recruits but seeing no playing time at the FBS school they were at, they just needed a change of scenery and maybe wanted an opportunity for more playing time and would then have success at ACU, or they ran in to some trouble and were suspended and needed to transfer to play (with mixed results). The announcers for the SHSU game last week mentioned that Sam had something like 17 starters that were not even on the team in Spring ball! I know you can't do that successfully every year and with Keeler coming in it could have been a necessity due to recruiting issues. Just wanted to spark discussion. Southeastern LA is the other school in our conference that turned its program into a winner very quickly with transfers. These are the exceptions to the rule though, just as K State is at the FBS level. Overall, a school that relies heavily of transfers each year will not be as successful as a school that recruits more HS players. I am in favor of selectively taking jucos and FBS transfers, but long term the best programs use transfers to fill gaps but rely on player development over a 4 or 5 year carrier as the cornerstone of the program. This longer term approach requires patience and a program adept at player development--good coaches, a good off season program, and an excellent Strength and Conditioning program. North Dakota State has used this approach to build its dynasty, as did Grand Valley at the D2 level. |
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Post by wildcatter on Dec 17, 2014 9:49:31 GMT -6
I tend to agree, especially for building a team with chemistry. As a player you can feel slighted by transfers especially from FBS level because you wonder if the coaches can look past the name and base the comparison off performance alone.
But does that philosophy change at all with two years remaining in the transition???
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Post by Cap'n Cattitude on Dec 17, 2014 14:12:15 GMT -6
I have to say that I hope ACU never decides to bring in a player kicked out of another program for failing drug tests in the spring and starts in the fall a la SHSU. That player should have some sort of suspension - lose a season I think.
Most of the reason for unsigned JUCOs by ACU is the money. Partial scholarships and all.
But transfers like Damon Williams are great for ACU. Quality guy all around.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Dec 17, 2014 14:20:07 GMT -6
I have to say that I hope ACU never decides to bring in a player kicked out of another program for failing drug tests in the spring and starts in the fall a la SHSU. That player should have some sort of suspension - lose a season I think. Most of the reason for unsigned JUCOs by ACU is the money. Partial scholarships and all. But transfers like Damon Williams are great for ACU. Quality guy all around. By the time a program tosses a player out for failing drug tests, you know he is a repeat offender.I don't know of a school at the D1 level that bounces a kid after one failed test, especially for pot. If they have been dismissed it is very likely for repeated offenses and/or being busted with enough weed to be charged with intent to distribute. |
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Post by Cap'n Cattitude on Dec 17, 2014 15:47:51 GMT -6
Eventually, it will bite Keeling on the butt.
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Post by wildcatter on Dec 17, 2014 20:39:39 GMT -6
So I guess no JUCO signings?
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Post by Cap'n Cattitude on Dec 18, 2014 7:48:08 GMT -6
The coaches won't announce them until they actually enroll either in spring or fall. Too many eligibility variables. We probably won't know until Feb.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Dec 18, 2014 8:08:10 GMT -6
The coaches won't announce them until they actually enroll either in spring or fall. Too many eligibility variables. We probably won't know until Feb. I don't quite understand this reasoning, although I agree that's been the pattern at ACU. We announce high school players as soon as they sign LOI's. Don't the same variables apply for them---might not graduate, gpa might dip below required minimum, might decide Abilene is just not where they want to be, and so forth? |
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Post by acutrackfan on Dec 18, 2014 9:44:54 GMT -6
I know in the past that ACU coaches have announced the JC/Transfer names with the signing list when it is announced in early February. Last year, the three that were announced were Larry McDuffey, Parker Whitney and William Moore. Ironically, only Moore ever played a down for ACU - McDuffey was gone at the end of last spring and Whitney bolted at the end of 2-a-days when it became apparent he would be a backup. I think that this recent history would make it even less likely for any announcements to be made prior to the end of this semester. Another irony - the transfer who really made a difference - Codey Funk - was on campus last spring, but was not ever announced. The first mention of him was just prior to 2-a-days, after he had a good spring and had obviously put himself into the picture for playing time.
I have followed other colleges signing announcements for years and until the last few years (5-10?) most did not formerly announce any transfers until the February signing date. Possibly that is because the national letter organization did not formalize the JC/transfer signing window (which this year is December 17 to January 15) until a few years ago.
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Post by bogeyman on Dec 18, 2014 10:22:16 GMT -6
This all makes sense; I just want to see how we upgrade our team and I live in an instant gratification society. It is interesting that Whitney would have been behind our own HS recruits that had a RS year. Whitney came from a heralded JC program, known for putting their players in top notch programs. If he couldn't beat out our own who have been in the program a couple of years, it says something about the quality HS players we are recruiting and the instruction they get once on campus. Kudos to all involved. Does anyone know what happened to McDuffey?
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Post by wildcatter on Dec 18, 2014 10:44:00 GMT -6
Louisville, Ole Miss, Miss St, Texas, Tennessee all signed multiple juco players. Kansas, under new head coach, signed 8.
Seems like the Mississippi juco's put out quite a number of players this year into major FBS programs.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Dec 19, 2014 4:25:18 GMT -6
[quote author=" wildcatter" source="/post/5587/thread" timestamp="1418921040" ]Louisville, Ole Miss, Miss St, Texas, Tennessee all signed multiple juco players. Kansas, under new head coach, signed 8. Seems like the Mississippi juco's put out quite a number of players this year into major FBS programs.[/quote] Closer to home, Stephen F Austin brought in 2, Northwestern State picked up 3, Southeastern LA added 4, and UCA inked 8. Lamar signed a juco QB. Nothing on the Sam Houston, Nicholls, HBU or UIW web sites. |
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Post by Cap'n Cattitude on Dec 19, 2014 8:38:07 GMT -6
I actually think we have or at least will have a big recruiting advantage in the high schools vs other SLC schools. We are significantly higher rated academically, have a top notch campus and soon top notch facilities. On the other hand, I think we are less attractive to most JUCOs, also for academic reasons and campus culture.
If these JUCO players had it all together, they wouldn't be JUCOs. I'm all for bringing in transfers but I don't want to build the program that way.
An SLU poster earlier noted that they went the JUCO route because after Katrina, it was difficult to find qualifiers. That may partially explain the JUCO talent in MS.
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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Dec 19, 2014 8:58:41 GMT -6
I actually think we have or at least will have a big recruiting advantage in the high schools vs other SLC schools. We are significantly higher rated academically, have a top notch campus and soon top notch facilities. On the other hand, I think we are less attractive to most JUCOs, also for academic reasons and campus culture.If these JUCO players had it all together, they wouldn't be JUCOs. I'm all for bringing in transfers but I don't want to build the program that way. An SLU poster earlier noted that they went the JUCO route because after Katrina, it was difficult to find qualifiers. That may partially explain the JUCO talent in MS. Our campus culture is a draw for some, a turn off for others. |
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