ACU - Brain
arm chair Grad Assistant
Carpe diem
Posts: 141
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Post by ACU - Brain on Apr 6, 2021 14:12:44 GMT -6
Thanks for the banter. The following are my two cents regarding this topic....As a former college player (with no delusion of grandeur) I can say I never once looked at our season scheduled or played with anyone that said this or that game doesn't matter. When we stepped on the field we wanted and expected to WIN. So I guess this is where you & I will have to agree to disagree about the schedule elevating level of play or even being a root cause of success/failure. It’s my assertion your so called good schedules (w/o DII or NAIA) has nothing to do with good play. From my experience good play has everything to do with the quality of players recruited and the coaches ability to teach the schemes and techniques needed to execute their vision on the field. Not to mention a coaches game day ability to modify schemes to fit their players best attributes to take advantage of other teams weakness. A BIG IF here....if our coaches scheme is sound and they are able teach the quality players they recruited, we will have a successful season no matter whom is on the schedule. That is why I previously said, "let’s see this staff take the players on their roster and by now they have recruited....play sound football and field a winning team". Lastly if anyone gets their undies in a twist over who is on the schedule, I suggest they buy the $40 ($7 p/game) general admission season tickets or watch the games on TV!!! LET'S GO CATS!!! For the most part I don't disagree, but two points that I have already mentioned. 1) Life ALWAYS throws the curveballs when it comes to anyone, including student athletes. We are human and make human mistakes. We don't always take things seriously. The ASU game is case in point. Yes, Dorrel said that he discussed taking ASU seriously. How much did that matter? How much was on the coach/coaches, how much on the players and player leadership? Currently, when it comes to quality of play, I am not saying much. The Fall will speak for itself; good or bad. I do think athletes often play to their opponents. I am glad you were above that. I am sure ACU wanted, and expected, to win against ASU. They didn't. Was it a fluke or something bigger with both coaches and the athletic department? I guess more time will tell. 2) The argument about DII and NAIA games being exhibitions doesn't rely on just quality of play. Exhibition games are just that. They don't amount to squat. If I change my mind and stop paying Club level prices, it is becasue the ACU athletic department didn't provide a game worth paying those prices for. That, is a valid point and a valid argument. If ACU continues to choose to schedule games that don't count, that's their choice. Is it a good business decision? Am I a bad fan?
My last response on this topic: I'll try to ignore your passive aggressive sentiments. I am glad you were above that. I am sure ACU wanted, and expected, to win against ASU. They didn't.
In my humble opinion Winning begets Winning and a Winning attitude brings on confidence. That is not something easily instilled by finishing in forth place once in the last 9 years.
Watching the ASU game down the row from you and listening to Dorrell's press conference afterwards, I wonder what did you expect Dorrell to say. I don't ever remember hearing Dorrell or any coach admit a lower division team had better/more talented speed players at key positions. From what i witnessed we were out coached, out played and out talented in many positions. Let us not forget Alfred Grear #26. Alfred ran for 4 TD's, 251 yards on 20 carries. I personally didn't believe the players over looked ASU, but if they did overlook ASU....it is on the coaches preparation the prior week. I was truly fortunate to have some really good coaches during my playing tenure. Not only where they good teachers but they were excellent motivators and our skill positions more often than not were better than the team lined up against us. We did get beat on occasion, however the coaches did not allow us to overlook teams or there would be HECK to pay....
Since you asked, I'll answer your final two questions. Is ACU's schedule a good business decision if you Outsider decide not attend ACU's football games?? The schedule dilemma is one of those items that fall into my daily mantra "Do not let items rent space in my mind that don't concern me" - however if i wanted to allow it on my frontal lobe, i would put a positive spin on you deciding not come to the game, as it will allow me to get one more hamburger or hotdog at the game. Lastly, I don't think you are a bad fan...reading your posts over the years - you appear to me as a half empty cup person that likes to bluster. Nothing wrong with that...i guess it takes all kinds to make the world go around.
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Post by houstoncat on Apr 6, 2021 14:31:51 GMT -6
For the most part I don't disagree, but two points that I have already mentioned. 1) Life ALWAYS throws the curveballs when it comes to anyone, including student athletes. We are human and make human mistakes. We don't always take things seriously. The ASU game is case in point. Yes, Dorrel said that he discussed taking ASU seriously. How much did that matter? How much was on the coach/coaches, how much on the players and player leadership? Currently, when it comes to quality of play, I am not saying much. The Fall will speak for itself; good or bad. I do think athletes often play to their opponents. I am glad you were above that. I am sure ACU wanted, and expected, to win against ASU. They didn't. Was it a fluke or something bigger with both coaches and the athletic department? I guess more time will tell. 2) The argument about DII and NAIA games being exhibitions doesn't rely on just quality of play. Exhibition games are just that. They don't amount to squat. If I change my mind and stop paying Club level prices, it is becasue the ACU athletic department didn't provide a game worth paying those prices for. That, is a valid point and a valid argument. If ACU continues to choose to schedule games that don't count, that's their choice. Is it a good business decision? Am I a bad fan?
My last response on this topic: I'll try to ignore your passive aggressive sentiments. I am glad you were above that. I am sure ACU wanted, and expected, to win against ASU. They didn't.
In my humble opinion Winning begets Winning and a Winning attitude brings on confidence. That is not something easily instilled by finishing in forth place once in the last 9 years.
Watching the ASU game down the row from you and listening to the Dorrell's press conference afterwards, I wonder what did you expect Dorrell to say. I don't ever remember hearing Dorrell or any coach admit a lower division team had better/more talented speed players at key positions. From what i witnessed we were out coached, out played and out talented in many positions. Let us not forget Alfred Grear #26. Alfred ran for 4 TD's, 251 yards on 20 carries. I personally didn't believe the players over looked ASU, but if they did overlook ASU....it is on the coaches preparation the prior week. I was truly fortunate to have some really good coaches during my playing tenure. Not only where they good teachers but they were excellent motivators and our skill positions more often than not were better than the team lined up against us. We did get beat on occasion, however the coaches did not allow us to overlook teams or there would be HECK to pay....
Since you asked, I'll answer your final two questions. Is ACU's schedule a good business decision if you Outsider decide not attend ACU's football games?? The schedule dilemma is one of those items that fall into my daily mantra "Don't to not let items rent space in my mind that don't concern me" - however if i wanted to allow it on my frontal lobe, i would put a positive spin on you deciding not come to the game, as it will allow me to get one more hamburger or hotdog at the game. Lastly, I don't think you are a bad fan...reading your posts over the years - you appear to me as a half empty cup person that likes to bluster. Nothing wrong with that...i guess it takes all kinds to make the world go around.
Two things: 1) I always think it is funny when a lower level team beats a higher level team the explanation is that the higher level team didn't take them seriously. To me, that is such a patronizing perspective. 2) You look at the basketball team's success and you ask yourself how did they get there. It wasn't a quick fix. It was faster than expected, but that still took just about a decade. I don't know how long you stick with a coach and let him do his thing. All I can tell you is I think fans and the modern Athletic Director are far too quick to send a coach packing. You recruit several years to build a culture and style of play. These years often don't look good. Then you start to build on that culture with some more talent. It is tough to make that transition, especially when every year we have quite a bit of coaching turnover (which I think speaks well of our ability to get solid young coaches). One additional thing about the schedule. It is more than just winning. You have to be able to afford to get schools hear. I also think that leaving the Southland will help us get OOC games in the future. We have built relationships with those schools and they are close enough for travel not to be to costly. We aren't good enough in the win category nor rich enough to have a top tier schedule. It is the reality of the phase our program is in. I personally am more interested in supporting a bad team to success than condemning them to it. I don't mean handing out participation trophies. I mean trusting the process. I look at schools like Texas who have in my opinion the WORST fans in college football because nothing is good enough for them. I've always joked that if they win another championship the fanbase are going to complain that it wasn't by enough points. They aren't realistic about where the phase their program is in currently. I think the same pertains to us. We fans want success, but don't seem ready to support the team through the growing pains. That being said, perhaps I ramble and I am too optimistic or too patient. But I am the type of person who wouldn't think of firing a coach for at least 7 years. I guess I am old school in that way. |
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Post by buckeyecat on Apr 6, 2021 14:50:29 GMT -6
Good examples are the two coaches last night. Mark Few has been at Gonzaga for 21 years. Scott Few took over a struggling Baylor program in 2003. Sampson also took over a mediocre U of H program in 2114. All had bad years like Golding but their programs stuck with them.
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Post by Outsider on Apr 6, 2021 18:47:31 GMT -6
Yep, ACU played like crap against ASU and ASU outcoached and outplayed Dorrell and the team. They had talent we had talent. It wasn't the first game we played badly back in the Fall and ASU wasn't the first crap game scheduled. ACU has been scheduling them for a while, which is why several fans are getting vocal about it. The issue isn't just whether we win or lose, it's why are we playing crap games to begin with? Yeah, it's just a money problem. Yes, it's affecting attendance just as our poor play has affected attendance. I have been there game in and game out, watching both our play and our scheduling get worse. We've been observing and talking about Dorrell for a while now, nothing new and not really the focus of this conversation. Brain, you know I can't eat enough hotdogs or burgers to make it worth your while anyway. I think we have an on the field culture problem and larger football culture problem to which the poor scheduling is only a symptom. Are football victories going to fix all of that? I hope we do start winning; whether its against DI, DII, DIII or NAIA.... The WAC will be interesting. Me being negative Nancy or not still hasn't changed that reality. Maybe the football team is at its turnaround point?
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Post by Outsider on Apr 6, 2021 19:10:46 GMT -6
Two things: 1) I always think it is funny when a lower level team beats a higher level team the explanation is that the higher level team didn't take them seriously. To me, that is such a patronizing perspective. 2) You look at the basketball team's success and you ask yourself how did they get there. It wasn't a quick fix. It was faster than expected, but that still took just about a decade. I don't know how long you stick with a coach and let him do his thing. All I can tell you is I think fans and the modern Athletic Director are far too quick to send a coach packing. You recruit several years to build a culture and style of play. These years often don't look good. Then you start to build on that culture with some more talent. It is tough to make that transition, especially when every year we have quite a bit of coaching turnover (which I think speaks well of our ability to get solid young coaches). One additional thing about the schedule. It is more than just winning. You have to be able to afford to get schools hear. I also think that leaving the Southland will help us get OOC games in the future. We have built relationships with those schools and they are close enough for travel not to be to costly. We aren't good enough in the win category nor rich enough to have a top tier schedule. It is the reality of the phase our program is in. I personally am more interested in supporting a bad team to success than condemning them to it. I don't mean handing out participation trophies. I mean trusting the process. I look at schools like Texas who have in my opinion the WORST fans in college football because nothing is good enough for them. I've always joked that if they win another championship the fanbase are going to complain that it wasn't by enough points. They aren't realistic about where the phase their program is in currently. I think the same pertains to us. We fans want success, but don't seem ready to support the team through the growing pains. That being said, perhaps I ramble and I am too optimistic or too patient. But I am the type of person who wouldn't think of firing a coach for at least 7 years. I guess I am old school in that way. There are days where patience is nice. I have been patient for a while and me being more vocal lately isn't about me not supporting the program through the rough times. A difference between the football program, and the basketball program that people want to compare it to, is that the football program was having a decent amount of success. It didn't have to dig itself out of the big hole that basketball did. Yes, a coaching change, on top of a divisional change, has consequences that have to be overcome. We should have been able to at least maintain a certain level. Even UIW and HBU have done slightly better than us the last couple of years in scheduling; one bad home game a year, but better OOC FCS opponents. The point is that our scheduling issues aren't just a phase problem. I know they are partially a money problem. I think the WAC will help, but that isn't the current issue. |
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Post by houstoncat on Apr 6, 2021 19:48:08 GMT -6
Two things: 1) I always think it is funny when a lower level team beats a higher level team the explanation is that the higher level team didn't take them seriously. To me, that is such a patronizing perspective. 2) You look at the basketball team's success and you ask yourself how did they get there. It wasn't a quick fix. It was faster than expected, but that still took just about a decade. I don't know how long you stick with a coach and let him do his thing. All I can tell you is I think fans and the modern Athletic Director are far too quick to send a coach packing. You recruit several years to build a culture and style of play. These years often don't look good. Then you start to build on that culture with some more talent. It is tough to make that transition, especially when every year we have quite a bit of coaching turnover (which I think speaks well of our ability to get solid young coaches). One additional thing about the schedule. It is more than just winning. You have to be able to afford to get schools hear. I also think that leaving the Southland will help us get OOC games in the future. We have built relationships with those schools and they are close enough for travel not to be to costly. We aren't good enough in the win category nor rich enough to have a top tier schedule. It is the reality of the phase our program is in. I personally am more interested in supporting a bad team to success than condemning them to it. I don't mean handing out participation trophies. I mean trusting the process. I look at schools like Texas who have in my opinion the WORST fans in college football because nothing is good enough for them. I've always joked that if they win another championship the fanbase are going to complain that it wasn't by enough points. They aren't realistic about where the phase their program is in currently. I think the same pertains to us. We fans want success, but don't seem ready to support the team through the growing pains. That being said, perhaps I ramble and I am too optimistic or too patient. But I am the type of person who wouldn't think of firing a coach for at least 7 years. I guess I am old school in that way. There are days where patience is nice. I have been patient for a while and me being more vocal lately isn't about me not supporting the program through the rough times. A difference between the football program, and the basketball program that people want to compare it to, is that the football program was having a decent amount of success. It didn't have to dig itself out of the big hole that basketball did. Yes, a coaching change, on top of a divisional change, has consequences that have to be overcome. We should have been able to at least maintain a certain level. Even UIW and HBU have done slightly better than us the last couple of years in scheduling; one bad home game a year, but better OOC FCS opponents. The point is that our scheduling issues aren't just a phase problem. I know they are partially a money problem. I think the WAC will help, but that isn't the current issue. You made some good points and lost me on a few points. In general, I think the scheduling issues are a combination of phase, money, team prestige, and location. Regardless, I think winning is what fixes those issues to the degree they can be fixed. |
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Post by Outsider on Apr 6, 2021 19:55:09 GMT -6
There are days where patience is nice. I have been patient for a while and me being more vocal lately isn't about me not supporting the program through the rough times. A difference between the football program, and the basketball program that people want to compare it to, is that the football program was having a decent amount of success. It didn't have to dig itself out of the big hole that basketball did. Yes, a coaching change, on top of a divisional change, has consequences that have to be overcome. We should have been able to at least maintain a certain level. Even UIW and HBU have done slightly better than us the last couple of years in scheduling; one bad home game a year, but better OOC FCS opponents. The point is that our scheduling issues aren't just a phase problem. I know they are partially a money problem. I think the WAC will help, but that isn't the current issue. You made some good points and lost me on a few points. In general, I think the scheduling issues are a combination of phase, money, team prestige, and location. Regardless, I think winning is what fixes those issues to the degree they can be fixed. It certainly doesn't hurt! |
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Post by buckeyecat on Apr 6, 2021 21:00:50 GMT -6
Sorry guys about my typo above. I meant Scott Drew as the coach at Baylor.
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ACU - Brain
arm chair Grad Assistant
Carpe diem
Posts: 141
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Post by ACU - Brain on Apr 7, 2021 13:00:34 GMT -6
Interesting factoid...Mercer has 4 wins & 2 loss in their spring season. Mercer has back to back wins over #9 Chattanooga & #17 Furman. It looks like ACU has a chance to be in the top 20 next season. I can't wait until the fall football season.
GO CATS!!!
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Post by Cap'n Cattitude on Apr 8, 2021 11:10:21 GMT -6
Here’s what I think of all this ...
I’m going to be patient with Dorrel. The college landscape is changing. I know that the staff has pivoted in its recruitment to be more active in pursuing transfers and that there have been key coaching changes.
There is talent on this roster. I see potential improvement. I just don’t know how much given our schedule.
I am for sure going to the spring game. I want to see this team with my own eyes. (Although some key players may not arrive until summer.
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Post by wildkitten1489 on Apr 8, 2021 11:27:07 GMT -6
Interesting factoid...Mercer has 4 wins & 2 loss in their spring season. Mercer has back to back wins over #9 Chattanooga & #17 Furman. It looks like ACU has a chance to be in the top 20 next season. I can't wait until the fall football season. GO CATS!!! What? |
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Post by rc on Apr 8, 2021 16:29:13 GMT -6
Interesting factoid...Mercer has 4 wins & 2 loss in their spring season. Mercer has back to back wins over #9 Chattanooga & #17 Furman. It looks like ACU has a chance to be in the top 20 next season. I can't wait until the fall football season. GO CATS!!! What? ACU's lone win last time was against Mercer. |
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Post by wildcatter on Apr 8, 2021 16:32:56 GMT -6
Could stop at lone win.
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ACU - Brain
arm chair Grad Assistant
Carpe diem
Posts: 141
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Post by ACU - Brain on Apr 9, 2021 8:26:35 GMT -6
ACU's lone win last time was against Mercer. ACU in the Top 20 might be a little stretch...But we did beat a team with back to back wins over #9 Chattanooga & #17 Furman. aaaah it could happen!!
To plagiarize or slightly modify Casey Kasem's signature line, let us all in ACU Wildcat Nation...." Keep our feet on the ground and keep reaching for the stars" ....in this case the TOP 20
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Post by Cap'n Cattitude on Apr 9, 2021 9:11:07 GMT -6
Excuse me while i make some purple kool aid.
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