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Post by oldman on Jun 15, 2015 10:41:14 GMT -6
You need to start now for 2016 and HKS does not have the plans finished and ready for School to Bid stadium. 2017 is the soonest.
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Post by catmasters05 on Jun 15, 2015 11:24:49 GMT -6
A lot of players were promised a New Stadium for 2016 kickoff! This hurts the current team and future teams in building a program if we can't stand behind our words and promises to kids we are trying to teach these things. Already lots of rumblings from players! Especially when some of the kids come from high school programs with better facilities, equipment, and gear. It's getting to a point of 3 steps backward for the program. I couldn't agree more. A stadium in 2016 was promised to the 2015 recruiting class, and was used as a selling point to get some recruits. The lack of a stadium for at least another year (and I fear possibly longer) can create some mistrust. I love the coaching staff and school, but that can hurt trust with some of these kids that had a nicer high school stadium than what they will be playing in for at least a couple more years.
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Post by wildcatter on Jun 15, 2015 11:31:34 GMT -6
How much of that can you hold against the coaches though?
This stadium announcement was not made by the coaches, it was made by the President of the university. Don't get me wrong, I want it done, but the players can't be mad at Coach Young or Coach Dulin because of what was projected and promised by someone else to them as well.
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Post by oldman on Jun 15, 2015 12:02:11 GMT -6
It was still used as a recruiting tool.
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Post by wildcatter on Jun 15, 2015 12:23:30 GMT -6
It was still used as a recruiting tool. I understand that. I never said it wasn't. But what are the coaches supposed to do. If something was promised to them, then they felt inclined to promise it to someone else.
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Post by WildCatToothDoc on Jun 15, 2015 12:57:35 GMT -6
Unfortunately the coaches will get the blame from the players.
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Post by bogeyman on Jun 15, 2015 13:12:28 GMT -6
Why will or should the coaches get any blame? I just don't get this reasoning. A recruiting tool? These kids were recruited to be the beginning of a D1 program. They were recruited to a great school. They were recruited to play for great coaches. They were recruited to build a start-up program into a conference and national contender. A new stadium was on the books. They saw the plans and have been up close and personal to any glitches and hold-ups. Don't you guys think the coaches have been sharing their hopes and dreams and frustrations with the guys they recruit? Whether it is in 2016 or 2017 or later, the stadium is coming. Since we are purported to be recruiting smarter athletes, I'd think they'd get it. You play for teammates, coaches, and school, not for stadiums. (I realize that's a limited view, but it is mine.) Any kid we lose because a stadium gets delayed is better off somewhere else...and so are we, to be rid of him. My $0.10 worth. Useless chatter, IMHO.
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Post by Cap'n Cattitude on Jun 15, 2015 13:20:56 GMT -6
Why will or should the coaches get any blame? I just don't get this reasoning. A recruiting tool? These kids were recruited to be the beginning of a D1 program. They were recruited to a great school. They were recruited to play for great coaches. They were recruited to build a start-up program into a conference and national contender. A new stadium was on the books. They saw the plans and have been up close and personal to any glitches and hold-ups. Don't you guys think the coaches have been sharing their hopes and dreams and frustrations with the guys they recruit? Whether it is in 2016 or 2017 or later, the stadium is coming. Since we are purported to be recruiting smarter athletes, I'd think they'd get it. You play for teammates, coaches, and school, not for stadiums. (I realize that's a limited view, but it is mine.) Any kid we lose because a stadium gets delayed is better off somewhere else...and so are we, to be rid of him. My $0.10 worth. Useless chatter, IMHO. What he said.
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Post by WildCatToothDoc on Jun 15, 2015 13:26:43 GMT -6
I agree but if some recruit comes to ACU because of dreams of a new stadium then the coach is first in line. I didn't say it WAS the coaches fault only that he is first in line. He feels the heat first.
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Post by WildCatToothDoc on Jun 15, 2015 13:28:32 GMT -6
Like you said if that's the only reason then they are better off somewhere else.
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Post by Cap'n Cattitude on Jun 15, 2015 13:34:03 GMT -6
Why will or should the coaches get any blame? I just don't get this reasoning. A recruiting tool? These kids were recruited to be the beginning of a D1 program. They were recruited to a great school. They were recruited to play for great coaches. They were recruited to build a start-up program into a conference and national contender. A new stadium was on the books. They saw the plans and have been up close and personal to any glitches and hold-ups. Don't you guys think the coaches have been sharing their hopes and dreams and frustrations with the guys they recruit? Whether it is in 2016 or 2017 or later, the stadium is coming. Since we are purported to be recruiting smarter athletes, I'd think they'd get it. You play for teammates, coaches, and school, not for stadiums. (I realize that's a limited view, but it is mine.) Any kid we lose because a stadium gets delayed is better off somewhere else...and so are we, to be rid of him. My $0.10 worth. Useless chatter, IMHO. I also doubt that it's a big deal to recruits. but it sure will help down the road.
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Post by bogeyman on Jun 15, 2015 13:42:31 GMT -6
OK, I've wanted to do this ever since the "on campus stadium" issue came up. Currently there are 66 High School stadiums in the state of Texas that have a seating capacity of 10,000-16,000 people. Add to that number 16 more that have a seating capacity of 16,000 plus. These are high school stadiums. That's 82 stadiums that have a capacity of more than the original planned stadium at ACU. What percentage of our players (on the 2015 roster) do you think played in one of those 82 stadiums and/or called it home? Just how much of a "recruiting tool" do you think a new 8,500 seat stadium was when they played every week for 4 years at a larger one in HS? If our new stadium was a major "recruiting tool" with these kids, I'd be very much surprised. Instead, what wouldn't surprise me would be their laughter at such a "tool." Especially kids that played at Frisco (20,500), or Mesquite (20,000), or Farrington in Ft. Worth (18,500) or Allen (18,000) or Ratcliff in Odessa (18,000) or San Angelo (17,500)or Clark in Plano (14,500) etc. Let's give our players and coaches the benefit of the doubt and cheer their progress on. When, or if, a new stadium opens let's be grateful for another stepping stone toward greatness. Our frustration need not spill over. We've got some big givers and influentially powerful alums working hard to bring this stadium to fruition and I believe they'll be successful pretty soon. I wish I could help. Maybe I'll start buying lottery tickets or something. I'm looking forward to a great 2015 season for the Cats at Shotwell. Let's fill it up every home game and then gripe because the on campus planned stadium is too small.
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Post by WildCatToothDoc on Jun 15, 2015 13:56:06 GMT -6
OK, I've wanted to do this ever since the "on campus stadium" issue came up. Currently there are 66 High School stadiums in the state of Texas that have a seating capacity of 10,000-16,000 people. Add to that number 16 more that have a seating capacity of 16,000 plus. These are high school stadiums. That's 82 stadiums that have a capacity of more than the original planned stadium at ACU. What percentage of our players (on the 2015 roster) do you think played in one of those 82 stadiums and/or called it home? Just how much of a "recruiting tool" do you think a new 8,500 seat stadium was when they played every week for 4 years at a larger one in HS? If our new stadium was a major "recruiting tool" with these kids, I'd be very much surprised. Instead, what wouldn't surprise me would be their laughter at such a "tool." Especially kids that played at Frisco (20,500), or Mesquite (20,000), or Farrington in Ft. Worth (18,500) or Allen (18,000) or Ratcliff in Odessa (18,000) or San Angelo (17,500)or Clark in Plano (14,500) etc. Let's give our players and coaches the benefit of the doubt and cheer their progress on. When, or if, a new stadium opens let's be grateful for another stepping stone toward greatness. Our frustration need not spill over. We've got some big givers and influentially powerful alums working hard to bring this stadium to fruition and I believe they'll be successful pretty soon. I wish I could help. Maybe I'll start buying lottery tickets or something. I'm looking forward to a great 2015 season for the Cats at Shotwell. Let's fill it up every home game and then gripe because the on campus planned stadium is too small. Great info
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Post by acufbdad on Jun 15, 2015 14:23:17 GMT -6
OK, I've wanted to do this ever since the "on campus stadium" issue came up. Currently there are 66 High School stadiums in the state of Texas that have a seating capacity of 10,000-16,000 people. Add to that number 16 more that have a seating capacity of 16,000 plus. These are high school stadiums. That's 82 stadiums that have a capacity of more than the original planned stadium at ACU. What percentage of our players (on the 2015 roster) do you think played in one of those 82 stadiums and/or called it home? Just how much of a "recruiting tool" do you think a new 8,500 seat stadium was when they played every week for 4 years at a larger one in HS? If our new stadium was a major "recruiting tool" with these kids, I'd be very much surprised. Instead, what wouldn't surprise me would be their laughter at such a "tool." Especially kids that played at Frisco (20,500), or Mesquite (20,000), or Farrington in Ft. Worth (18,500) or Allen (18,000) or Ratcliff in Odessa (18,000) or San Angelo (17,500)or Clark in Plano (14,500) etc. Let's give our players and coaches the benefit of the doubt and cheer their progress on. When, or if, a new stadium opens let's be grateful for another stepping stone toward greatness. Our frustration need not spill over. We've got some big givers and influentially powerful alums working hard to bring this stadium to fruition and I believe they'll be successful pretty soon. I wish I could help. Maybe I'll start buying lottery tickets or something. I'm looking forward to a great 2015 season for the Cats at Shotwell. Let's fill it up every home game and then gripe because the on campus planned stadium is too small. I'm with Bogey. The kids at ACU today just want to be able to play football at the college level. A nice stadium is part of the overall experience, and will be for us - eventually. But until it comes to fruition, I don't think their reason for being at here was based on whether or not we have a stadium. I DO hope it is based on an education, a winning football tradition, a reputation for having guys going on to the next level, a christian based environment, etc. etc. Parker played high school games (10,000 would be pretty typical at Smithson Valley) just about every week with larger crowds than we have at Shotwell - but when it's all over, that diploma is going to do him a lot more good than how many people watched him on Friday nights or Saturday afternoons. Don't get me wrong - I'm all for an on campus stadium and the sooner the better. I don't think the recruits we have today or in the past year or so decided on ACU because we have plans for a stadium. But I would bet some of the recruits we DIDN'T get factored in the lack of a stadium as one of the reasons - so we DO need to get this rolling before we lose a recruit that could possibly help make the difference for us to reach the playoffs once we become eligible! And at this rate, it looks like we ARE going to get off SLC "probation" before we have a stadium.
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Post by wildcats0075 on Jun 15, 2015 15:38:40 GMT -6
I am somewhere in the middle of the debate. I know that even when I was playing there was a lot of complaints from team members about playing at Shotwell in an off-campus high school stadium with a picture of an eagle and cougar on the scoreboard (the stadium is certainly nicer now than when I played and the turf really helps because the grass was very dead by the end of the season and it looked terrible to be playing on what looked to be a field of wheat).
Shotwell was a bit of a problem when we were recruiting against other D2 teams and Shotwell was generally comparable to their stadiums, but now that we are competing against teams that have a much better game day experience and stadium I can see it becoming a bigger problem.
I also don't think the size of the stadium equates to a nicer stadium, I think the atmosphere and appearance counts for more. The larger stadiums listed above included San Angelo, which is larger but really a dump (or it was the last time I saw it). Even Angelo State built their own on campus stadium (even thought San Angelo stadium is technically on campus) with plans for expanding it. The pitch was to play in a "state of the art" stadium right on campus with a nice game day experience and loud crowd on both sides. I would much rather have a nicer but smaller stadium on campus that is full and loud than over 6,000 empty seats on the visitor side line in a 60 year old stadium surrounded by a dirty and dusty gravel parking lot that blows dust into the stadium.
The glossy plans that were rolled out for recruiting looked great and I am sure that recruits showed them to friends and family and will have to eat crow when again their friends and family come to a game to sit in Shotwell. The school promised the stadium and needs to deliver. I completely agree that it is not the coach's fault, but as the saying goes it is their problem as they are the ones dealing with disappointed players. When I was recruited to ACU, they did not even show us Shotwell, so I can't imagine they are playing it up big now.
I agree that we won't have a mass exodus of players just because the stadium is not built, but these same players that are disappointed are also our primary recruiters and new recruits are going to ask about their experience at ACU and the new stadium. I can just see the new recruits asking the older players and getting an answer like, "well I saw the same plans as you three years ago when I was recruited and it is still not built and I will never get to play there.....?" Will this kind of statement put just that little bit out doubt in the recruits mind about the truthfulness of ACU or the coaches. Lets be honest for a lot of the recruits there has to be a moment when they are trying to pick between their top 2 seemingly equal choices, and this might just be enough to lose that recruit. 4 or 5 recruiting battles a year for some of the top rated recruits (that will have the most options) could be the difference in winning games.
Just curious how many other stadiums have people on the Cat Chat Board been to and just how do we compare to the actual experience. I have been the games at SFA, Sam, HBU, UCA and Texas State before they left. I would put our game day experience/stadium squarely behind everyone except HBU.
P.S. HBU's stadium is brand new but to me and example of exactly what ACU should not do and that is build a new on campus stadium for cheap just for the sake of building one. Their home filed is cheap high school looking metal bleachers that are open to the back and there literally is no visitor stands. A CVS sits 15 yards off the visitor 30 yard line, it is a very bad look. The drawing of teh ACU stadium have a very nice and custom stadium look to them and will be a much better place to play versus HBU's stadium.
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