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Post by OscarWildeCat, Admin on Oct 31, 2021 16:01:46 GMT -6
Honest question: why isn’t Dorrel successful here? Why did Collums struggle? Aren’t the both good coaches? Are we sure it’s not us? Is ACU too much of an uphill climb to ever be good at football? I am genuinely curious if we think we have the ability to ever be a consistent playoff caliber football program. Coaches are good from year to year or school to school because if the players they have. Just as a coach like Dabo and Orgeron can have a good year and a bad year at the same school. We have to find a way to make ACU the place kids want to come. Nice facilities are great, but ACU has to get creative to offer more than what everyone else offers. You have to have coaches AND players. “ You can’t outcoach recruiting’ Kirby Smart, Head Coach University of Georgia
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Post by mavsman53 on Oct 31, 2021 16:08:28 GMT -6
Collums was told the year before we moved into the new stadium that wins and losses didn't matter. Unconfirmed rumor was that those funding the stadium wanted a change and Lee made it happen. Collums is a great man of faith and a good offensive coach. However getting guys to pass academically was NOT his strong suit.
So in comes Dorrel. Dorrel was told to change the academic standard, which he has done. They looked at his success previously and said he can do that here. It doesn't help when we are running a D2 offense at best. It hasn't worked.
So why is ACU struggling in football. 2 reasons and some of you won't like what I have to say 1. The academic standard is high. We cannot recruit with SFA and Sam. They can take guys that will pass, but we won't take the chance, at least not now. Rarely and I mean rarely will we have a higher recruiting ranking than most of the schools in our conference. 2. Our Christian values. Please do not compare UIW to us in this; it's not even remotely the same. Some kids are turned off by the C in the middle of ACU. Students have to live on campus in the dorms for 2 years. There is a curfew. The standard is just different.
Both of these make it challenging to be competitive. If you look at both of these, you say, ok, which one could we lessen. It will be academics.
Also, some of us on here need to live in the present. I am reading too much about the way back when years. This isn't then.
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Post by catfanatic on Oct 31, 2021 16:24:59 GMT -6
Collums was told the year before we moved into the new stadium that wins and losses didn't matter. Unconfirmed rumor was that those funding the stadium wanted a change and Lee made it happen. Collums is a great man of faith and a good offensive coach. However getting guys to pass academically was NOT his strong suit. So in comes Dorrel. Dorrel was told to change the academic standard, which he has done. They looked at his success previously and said he can do that here. It doesn't help when we are running a D2 offense at best. It hasn't worked. So why is ACU struggling in football. 2 reasons and some of you won't like what I have to say 1. The academic standard is high. We cannot recruit with SFA and Sam. They can take guys that will pass, but we won't take the chance, at least not now. Rarely and I mean rarely will we have a higher recruiting ranking than most of the schools in our conference. 2. Our Christian values. Please do not compare UIW to us in this; it's not even remotely the same. Some kids are turned off by the C in the middle of ACU. Students have to live on campus in the dorms for 2 years. There is a curfew. The standard is just different. Both of these make it challenging to be competitive. If you look at both of these, you say, ok, which one could we lessen. It will be academics. Also, some of us on here need to live in the present. I am reading too much about the way back when years. This isn't then. Agree, and, yet, part of the logic with moving to D-1 was compete at an academic level more consistent with ACU’s standard. However, as you correctly point out, we’ll always have a comparatively uphill climb in recruiting given our academic and conduct standards. Northwestern and Stanford succeed despite the academic constraints, and BYU succeeds despite both expectations. My point being its not a question can it be done—it has. The real question is whether we at ACU are committed to doing what it takes to succeed. The University leadership has moved us up. That moves success is on us.
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Post by footballmama on Oct 31, 2021 17:06:49 GMT -6
Collums was told the year before we moved into the new stadium that wins and losses didn't matter. Unconfirmed rumor was that those funding the stadium wanted a change and Lee made it happen. Collums is a great man of faith and a good offensive coach. However getting guys to pass academically was NOT his strong suit. So in comes Dorrel. Dorrel was told to change the academic standard, which he has done. They looked at his success previously and said he can do that here. It doesn't help when we are running a D2 offense at best. It hasn't worked. So why is ACU struggling in football. 2 reasons and some of you won't like what I have to say 1. The academic standard is high. We cannot recruit with SFA and Sam. They can take guys that will pass, but we won't take the chance, at least not now. Rarely and I mean rarely will we have a higher recruiting ranking than most of the schools in our conference. 2. Our Christian values. Please do not compare UIW to us in this; it's not even remotely the same. Some kids are turned off by the C in the middle of ACU. Students have to live on campus in the dorms for 2 years. There is a curfew. The standard is just different. Both of these make it challenging to be competitive. If you look at both of these, you say, ok, which one could we lessen. It will be academics. Also, some of us on here need to live in the present. I am reading too much about the way back when years. This isn't then. Yes very true. I can tell you of 3 power 5 players that we know and tried to get them to come to ACU and the one thing that stopped them was the C in ACU. And anyone who isn't currently playing or doesn't have a kid currently playing this year in D1 football, you have no idea what it is like NOW. The whole process, mindset, and expectation is different. So you can not compare it to the times before the transfer portal or NIL was available. But let's use those tools together to help get the best players in. Everyone can complain and fuss all day, but if you want to put your money in to "buy someone", buy the players instead of buying coaches to come and go. If you don't get the players, the coaches won't matter.
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Post by Outsider on Oct 31, 2021 18:15:53 GMT -6
Honest question: why isn’t Dorrel successful here? Why did Collums struggle? Aren’t the both good coaches? Are we sure it’s not us? Is ACU too much of an uphill climb to ever be good at football? I am genuinely curious if we think we have the ability to ever be a consistent playoff caliber football program. Coaches are good from year to year or school to school because if the players they have. Just as a coach like Dabo and Orgeron can have a good year and a bad year at the same school. We have to find a way to make ACU the place kids want to come. Nice facilities are great, but ACU has to get creative to offer more than what everyone else offers. You have to have coaches AND players. This is a very true statement, but what is also true is that good coaches develop, motivate and teach the players they recruit better. We have many young players that need to learn, but we also have some older ones that should be beyond where they are. I see several of the players trying hard, but the issue is bigger than they are.
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Post by Outsider on Oct 31, 2021 18:26:27 GMT -6
Collums was told the year before we moved into the new stadium that wins and losses didn't matter. Unconfirmed rumor was that those funding the stadium wanted a change and Lee made it happen. Collums is a great man of faith and a good offensive coach. However getting guys to pass academically was NOT his strong suit. So in comes Dorrel. Dorrel was told to change the academic standard, which he has done. They looked at his success previously and said he can do that here. It doesn't help when we are running a D2 offense at best. It hasn't worked. So why is ACU struggling in football. 2 reasons and some of you won't like what I have to say 1. The academic standard is high. We cannot recruit with SFA and Sam. They can take guys that will pass, but we won't take the chance, at least not now. Rarely and I mean rarely will we have a higher recruiting ranking than most of the schools in our conference. 2. Our Christian values. Please do not compare UIW to us in this; it's not even remotely the same. Some kids are turned off by the C in the middle of ACU. Students have to live on campus in the dorms for 2 years. There is a curfew. The standard is just different. Both of these make it challenging to be competitive. If you look at both of these, you say, ok, which one could we lessen. It will be academics. Also, some of us on here need to live in the present. I am reading too much about the way back when years. This isn't then. Yes very true. I can tell you of 3 power 5 players that we know and tried to get them to come to ACU and the one thing that stopped them was the C in ACU. And anyone who isn't currently playing or doesn't have a kid currently playing this year in D1 football, you have no idea what it is like NOW. The whole process, mindset, and expectation is different. So you can not compare it to the times before the transfer portal or NIL was available. But let's use those tools together to help get the best players in. Everyone can complain and fuss all day, but if you want to put your money in to "buy someone", buy the players instead of buying coaches to come and go. If you don't get the players, the coaches won't matter. Like you said previously, it takes both. You can't have it both ways. Sorry if we are a bunch of know nothings from a previous century from what I am told. We understand what Mavsman is saying, as well as the other side of the story. We were around when there was a different standard for football players and when they weren't held to the same academic or social standard. Seems like I heard about a transfer portal somewhere, or at least seen one function on a soda commercial. Our tool box will need to be deep and varied for the right players, coaches and circumstances.
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Post by mavsman53 on Oct 31, 2021 19:49:43 GMT -6
I apologize if my earlier post seemed harsh. Sometimes it is easy to talk about the good ole days. When I started working at ACU 13 years ago, Mitchell Gale was a Freshman. We didn't know then that he would be a great QB. However, those were different times. We were D2 and one of the better teams. That was 13 years ago. I know ACU has a rich history, but again, that was then, this is now. So much has changed and in some ways, we have to change with it. Does ACU change who it is as a university? No, we shouldn't. Often times, when success doesn't happen, a shift does. Again the shift with Dorrel is we have to get better academically. Done! But now that has limited who we recruit. Yes, there is a transfer portal, but there are many players we can't touch because academically, they won't cut it here. A certain coach a few years ago used the transfer portal, especially JUCO players in a big way. Chances were taken and in some ways, it paid off. But it wasn't always clean off the field or in the classroom.
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Post by bucfan on Oct 31, 2021 19:56:30 GMT -6
Would I love to be a football power? Most definitely. But if that means having to lower academic or moral standards, I'll live with a .500 team every year. I think we can keep our standards and win but we may need to change how and where we recruit. And we need to get more former athletes working in high schools promoting ACU to their athletes.
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Post by Outsider on Oct 31, 2021 20:04:39 GMT -6
I apologize if my earlier post seemed harsh. Sometimes it is easy to talk about the good ole days. When I started working at ACU 13 years ago, Mitchell Gale was a Freshman. We didn't know then that he would be a great QB. However, those were different times. We were D2 and one of the better teams. That was 13 years ago. I know ACU has a rich history, but again, that was then, this is now. So much has changed and in some ways, we have to change with it. Does ACU change who it is as a university? No, we shouldn't. Often times, when success doesn't happen, a shift does. Again the shift with Dorrel is we have to get better academically. Done! But now that has limited who we recruit. Yes, there is a transfer portal, but there are many players we can't touch because academically, they won't cut it here. A certain coach a few years ago used the transfer portal, especially JUCO players in a big way. Chances were taken and in some ways, it paid off. But it wasn't always clean off the field or in the classroom. I don't think your statements were either harsh or untrue. I think you describe a dilemma for us very honestly. We need to be creative while remaining true to our identity and mission.
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Post by bucfan on Nov 1, 2021 9:02:45 GMT -6
I was listening to a podcast this morning about who Tech will hire as their next coach and the commentators talked about the struggles Tech has recruiting to West Texas. Reminded me a lot of ACU's struggles. We have the West Texas issue as well as the Christian aspect that turns off some recruits. I'll be the first to admit that ACU coaches don't have an easy job. That doesn't even mention the cost for students that aren't full scholarship.
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Post by catfanatic on Nov 1, 2021 11:59:51 GMT -6
I was listening to a podcast this morning about who Tech will hire as their next coach and the commentators talked about the struggles Tech has recruiting to West Texas. Reminded me a lot of ACU's struggles. We have the West Texas issue as well as the Christian aspect that turns off some recruits. I'll be the first to admit that ACU coaches don't have an easy job. That doesn't even mention the cost for students that aren't full scholarship. Amen, Brother Bucfan!
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